D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

Amount of rules however, does indicate which activities are more "rule intensive" than others.

Maybe yes or maybe it does say a bit more I have reliable choices with regards to something it very much influences me to think about it and bring it on deck to apply tactics and strategy in that arena so to speak.

 

[Maxperson]

The quote "The presence of rules does not determine what a roleplaying game is or is not about."

That rather heavily denies not sure how else to take it TBH

You should take it how it's presented, rather than your Strawman of it.

A roleplaying game can be about space pirates traversing the galaxies of the universe. The rules are irrelevant to that. Will the rules affect how the game is played? Yes. Of course they will. They do not determine what the RPG is about, though. You can have 10 different rule sets that all fit that theme, all influencing game play in different ways. None of which determine what the RPG is about.

 

[Garthanos]

Not necessarily. It mean that even in a intrigue-heavy game in which no one plays a spellcaster, I would rather have rules for combat and magic than looking for clues and persuasion

I want to play characters who sometimes have different mental abilities than myself and having rules in other arenas bring that to light. And basically the very versatile I can swap out my entire spell list daily magic becomes the same crutch you think the others who are applying skill mechanics for but only for a select class or two

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

You should take it how it's presented, rather than your Strawman of it.

A roleplaying game can be about space pirates traversing the galaxies of the universe. The rules are irrelevant to that. Will the rules affect how the game is played? Yes. Of course they will. They do not determine what the RPG is about, though. You can have 10 different rule sets that all fit that theme, all influencing game play in different ways. None of which determine what the RPG is about.

Yes. They influence how the game is played. 5E, 4E, and OD&D can all be about searching for treasure in a dungeon, but will all play quite differently. Likewise, all could be about pirates in the astral plane or court intrigue. Rules determine "how" but not "what."

 

[Garthanos]

Yes. Of course they will. They do not determine what the RPG is about, though. You can have 10 different rule sets that all fit that theme, all influencing game play in different ways. None of which determine what the RPG is about.

It was just said by the same person having all those combat powers being the most prevalent meant the opposite

 

[Garthanos]

Yes. They influence how the game is played. 5E, 4E, and OD&D can all be about searching for treasure in a dungeon, but will all play quite differently. Likewise, all could be about pirates in the astral plane or court intrigue. Rules determine "how" but not "what."

Then we should remove from the list at least one factor number of combat powers right?

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

I want to play characters who sometimes have different mental abilities than myself and having rules in other arenas bring that to light. And basically the very versatile I can swap out my entire spell list daily magic becomes the same crutch you think the others who are applying skill mechanics for but only for a select class or two...

I like skill mechanic sometimes. Depends on the game. Nowadays, it's easier just not to have one though. I give players the choice of a background profession from three lists (common, skilled, and noble). Any ability check associated with the character's awards advantage. So far, it's worked out well.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The presence of rules does not determine what a roleplaying game is or is not about.

Pretending rules do not influence play significantly seems a bit deceptive or something though.

The quote "The presence of rules does not determine what a roleplaying game is or is not about."

That rather heavily denies not sure how else to take it TBH

Because the original statement does not suggest that rules do not influence play: - anywhere a rule is applied, it is going to influence play. Your post insinuated that that is what was being suggested however, which was twisting the original intent.

(I do not believe that that is your intent, just what myself, as a native English speaker got from it.
I'm guessing that what you meant was that having a greater proportion of combat-related rules compared to social rules, for example, should influence the focus of a game to be more combat based in proportion?)

 

[Garthanos]

I'm guessing that what you meant was that having a greater proportion of combat-related rules compared to social rules, for example, should influence the focus of a game to be more combat based in proportion?)

and that same poster said as much with admonishments about the proportion of combat powers

Based on his adjacent list it is exactly what he meant.

To be clear it was definitely him saying that.

WayOfTheFourElements said:
I'd say the combat focuses comes from three things: 1) expectations of multiple combats per day,

Required of 5e for class balance and in 4e you could have experience granting skill challenge encounters be the entire day sequence.
So guess what your very first may be your expectation it wasnt in the slightest required

WayOfTheFourElements said:
2) combat taking a great deal of real-world time to resolve,

Rather have interesting 8 round combats with real choices than 3 rounds of boring dice checks TBH but to each their own. Real choices take some time (but honestly you are the one with 9 players I simply cannot relate well to that) I have had an average of 2 or 3.

WayOfTheFourElements said:
and 3) most powers focusing on combat.

Sure but I want skills counted as powers to be honest since OD&D didnt have those and the martial classes went from nothing to impactful skills and skill powers and SC and 4e skills did have elements of being powers. Note I can have a hundred rituals as a ritualist in 4e more than your OD&D mage has (damn under done Martial practices)

 

[Garthanos]

And contextually honestly we werent talking about those broad thematics excepting in as much amount of combat can influence that. (or vice versi)