D&D 4E Are powers samey?

[Garthanos]

The common thread I'm seeing here is the primacy of the combat pillar in 4E. It is a fact that A, E, and D are all attack powers, and I can see how a repeated focus on combat over several game sessions can make the play experience seem samey.

4e has U and vastly impactful skills and SC ...so I say meh to 5es other pillar purported emphasis.

 

[Minigiant]

The common thread I'm seeing here is the primacy of the combat pillar in 4E. It is a fact that A, E, and D are all attack powers, and I can see how a repeated focus on combat over several game sessions can make the play experience seem samey.

So, a perhaps slightly off-topic question that I'd be happy to spin off to another thread if necessary: what can 4E learn fron 5E in terms of diversifying the play experience?

Well

Most of D&D's rules are in the combat pillar.

Any time an edition (3e, 4e, and 5e) puts in social pillar rules, there are "riots".

Edit: That's probably why 4e rolled all U powers into one slot for social, exploration, AND more combat powers.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Well

Most of D&D's rules are in the combat pillar.

Any time an edition (3e, 4e, and 5e) puts in social pillar rules, there are "riots".

Edit: That's probably why 4e rolled all U powers into one slot for social, exploration, AND more combat powers.

The presence of rules does not determine what a roleplaying game is or is not about.

 

[Garthanos]

Pretending rules do not influence play significantly seems a bit deceptive or something though.

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

Hurray now notice how people are not applying to the game being called over combat focused and how bringing it up as though it opposes the comment about commonality really looks like a inconsiderate and prejudiced move.

I'd say the combat focuses comes from three things: 1) expectations of multiple combats per day, 2) combat taking a great deal of real-world time to resolve, and 3) most powers focusing on combat. If any one of those were not true, think the modes of play in 4e would expand greatly. Of those, I would prioritize combating #2.

 

[NotAYakk]

That's not really true, Charger allows you to move, use your action to dash and still make an attack that gains a bonus to damage or allows you to shove the target away. The closest comparison to charging in 4e is just a regular move and attack in 5e which anyone can do. Sure you don't gain the +1 bonus to hit but then 5e doesn't really bother with those small bonuses anyway because it doesn't really need them.

4e charge lets you double-move and attack. 5e charger lets you double-move and attack.

Hence samey.

The extra hit effect on 5e charger vs +1 to hit on 4e is set dressing. The key part was "move extra far to attsck", and "get some modest bonus for doing so".

But 4e is baseline.

 

[Garthanos]

I'd say the combat focuses comes from three things: 1) expectations of multiple combats per day,

Required of 5e for class balance and in 4e you could have experience granting skill challenge encounters be the entire day sequence.
So guess what your very first may be your expectation it wasnt in the slightest required

2) combat taking a great deal of real-world time to resolve,

Rather have interesting 8 round combats with real choices than 3 rounds of boring dice checks TBH but to each their own. Real choices take some time (but honestly you are the one with 9 players I simply cannot relate well to that) I have had an average of 2 or 3.

and 3) most powers focusing on combat.

Sure but I want skills counted as powers to be honest since OD&D didnt have those and the martial classes went from nothing to impactful skills and skill powers and SC and 4e skills did have elements of being powers. Note I can have a hundred rituals as a ritualist in 4e more than your OD&D mage has (damn under done Martial practices)

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

The common thread I'm seeing here is the primacy of the combat pillar in 4E. It is a fact that A, E, and D are all attack powers, and I can see how a repeated focus on combat over several game sessions can make the play experience seem samey.

So, a perhaps slightly off-topic question that I'd be happy to spin off to another thread if necessary: what can 4E learn fron 5E in terms of diversifying the play experience?

With fairly solid skill system, support for skill challenges, and less arbitrary "I win" capabilities restricted to only specific classes, I would ask rather what 5e should learn from 4e in that respect.

Pretending rules do not influence play significantly seems a bit deceptive or something though.

I'n tot sure who is suggesting that other than you.
Amount of rules however, does indicate which activities are more "rule intensive" than others. Combat being a prime example, whereas social encounters are more likely to be resolved with roleplaying and the occasional skill check or challenge. The social challenge may well take longer to play through than a combat, but D&D players would generally have a preference for round-by-round resolution of a combat situation and roleplaying through social ones.

 

[Garthanos]

I'n tot sure who is suggesting that other than you.

The quote "The presence of rules does not determine what a roleplaying game is or is not about."

That rather heavily denies not sure how else to take it TBH

 

[WayOfTheFourElements]

The quote "The presence of rules does not determine what a roleplaying game is or is not about."

That rather heavily denies not sure how else to take it TBH

Not necessarily. It mean that even in a intrigue-heavy game in which no one plays a spellcaster, I would rather have rules for combat and magic than looking for clues and persuasion