Are Rituals Vaporware?

We already know that someone said they were tired of the choice forced upon wizards; Phantom Steed vs. Fireball. The first is only useful outside of combat, the second only in combat. The game is, regardless of what some people say, primarily built around combat, so choosing the first for whatever reason is going to be penalized. They've said they'll be deliberately designing the game with powers and abilities focused on combat and with others focused on outside of combat; never the twain shall meet (unless you find a good reason to use a combat power outside of combat, I suppose).*

We've seen a lot of powers and exploits, and they're all combat oriented. Since we know they're putting in non-combat options as a separate list, it makes sense that they'd be part of the only system we've heard of for which we've not yet seen any fluff. Since we're reasonable and we know WotC is reasonable, it doesn't make sense for something like a ritual for Phantom Steed to cost two flying carpets and a virgin in addition to taking a week to perform, so that implies a relatively cheap ritual that doesn't take much time. Conversely, it wouldn't make much sense for a ritual that would kill all dwarves and turn the eladrin into the guys from the Queer Eye show to cost a chicken dinner and take five minutes, so we would expect a ritual that would take a lot of time and money (so the PCs could kill the ritualist at the last second and take all his stuff).

So, to put things in a quick and dirty list:

1) Do we have any info on rituals? No. All we know is that they'll exist, they'll require a feat or power of some kind to access, and they'll take time and money.

2) Non-combat things are not, so far as we know, accessible through the feats and powers we've seen.

3) We don't know how they'll be handled.

4) It's reasonable to assume that things like Phantom Steed and Scrying will be handled with rituals.

5) It's reasonable to assume that a ritual for something like Phantom Steed will be quite different from one for Destroy the World or Bake Me a Pizza.

6) Are rituals our stock answer? You betcha! Mostly because we don't know anything about them, but also because everything we've heard has led us to believe they are, in fact, the answer. I don't know if the wizards implied it or we inferred it, but there you go.

7) There is no seven.

* I believe this was in one of the podcasts. It's hard to remember, what with so much information been thrown at us.
 

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I'm confused.

By definition, the first thing Rituals will need in order to "fix everything" is to find something that's broken. What's broken?

Glad you asked. I'll tell you. Broken is scry-buff-teleport. Broken is find the path. Broken is arcane eye. Broken is commune...broken is...*cough* You get the point.*

I hope Rituals don't "fix everything" by introducing those old, tired fun-sponges into the game.

At a minimum, I hope they do allow the DM some control of when, how, and how often such game-changing magic is wielded.

Wis

* I won't go so far as to say all these spells are badwrongfun. I just don't like the prevalence they have in 3E. Sorta ruins the sense of wonder, nerfs the rogue, and increases the prep time - all in one fell swoop.
 

Surgoshan said:
5) It's reasonable to assume that a ritual for something like Phantom Steed will be quite different from one for Destroy the World or Bake Me a Pizza.

Because that's a mistake you only make once.

Unless you get the Pizza.

Then you might make that mistake a few times...until you destroy the world.
 

I have to say I share the OPs major concern. Are we just going to get guidelines for creating rituals and perhaps just a few sample rituals (kind of like the Incantations rules in UA)? Or are we going to get a full suite of ready-made rituals in the PHB? I'd much prefer the latter (with some guidelines for creating new ones).
 

ProfessorCirno said:
I will agree that "BUT...BUT...RITUALS!" seem to make a good chunk of the answers given here for just about any question imaginable.

I don't think the worry is if rituals exist. They do. I think the worry is "Will they fix EVERYTHING we've been told they'll fix?"

The sad thing is, the 'fix everything' is completely a fan created thing. The devs haven't talked about them enough to have created any buzz beyond 'they exist, they can be learned, some spells have moved to ritual territory'.

In particular, the 'any missing monster abilities are just rituals now' has wandered solely out of the heads of people on this board, with no help from the devs at all.
 

I've gotta say that skill challenges have been a bit of a disappointment, multiclassing was not an ultimate coolness, traps are somewhat less than I had expected. I suspect rituals will not break the trend. But even though those are not uber-cool, I still see them as improvements over the 3e game. I'm betting rituals will end in the same result.
 


ProfessorCirno and muffin_of_chaos:

The two of you are still pretty new here, and perhaps you did not pay much attention to the Rules when you signed on. Let me remind you that our #1 Rule is "Keep it civil". We expect you to show respect for other users, and their opinions, however much you may disagree with them.

Please do not continue in your current disrespectful manner.

Do feel free to e-mail any of the moderating staff to discuss the rules, and how they may apply to you - our addresses are in a post stickied to the top of the Meta forum.
 

TheSleepyKing said:
I have to say I share the OPs major concern. Are we just going to get guidelines for creating rituals and perhaps just a few sample rituals (kind of like the Incantations rules in UA)? Or are we going to get a full suite of ready-made rituals in the PHB? I'd much prefer the latter (with some guidelines for creating new ones).

We are getting full ready made rituals. All rituals are are non combat spells. So essentially all you will be getting out of rituals are all of the non combat spells we havent seen so far, which are all of them.

You want to cast resurrection? You dont just learn it for the day and put it in a slot, you either take out your scroll of the ritual "Raise Dead" and perform the ritual, or you some how cast it by using a book (or learn the ritual from the book and can perform the ritual whenever, not sure).

You want to travel across the world in an instant? You perform the ritual True Portal. However if you want to blowup a monster with fireball you use a spell in combat. Thats the diffirence.
 


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