Are schools of Magic Mutually Exclusive?

[Felix]

This is essentially the crux of the argument being discussed in This Thread, and I figured it deserved a thread of its own.

So, the contention:

Subschools are a part of a superschool, and all (Subschool) spells are contained within that Superschool. (Scrying) for Divination, (Shadow) for Illusion, (Healing) for Conjuration, et cetera. Is it possible to have a spell that is part of a (Subschool), but be part of another superschool? For example, is a Necromancy (Calling) spell possible?

If the 8 schools of magic are mutually exclusive, that is, if a spell is in either one school or another and not both, then you could not have a Necromancy (Calling) spell because (Calling) spells are Conjuration spells, and there's no such thing as a Necrojuration spell.

If, on the other hand, the schools are not mutually exclusive, then you could easily have a spell that was simultaneously a Necromancy, a Conjuration, and a (Calling) spell.

Please, this is not a question of what should be, but what is. That is another thread altogether.

So, are the 8 schools of magic mutually exclusive?

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Points to consider:

• 2nd Edition had spells that were part of two different schools.

• 3e and 3eR spells have all been explicitly pigeon-holed in one school or another, with a few exceptions (see next bullet).

• There are "Universal" spells that belong to no school whatsoever. Or perhaps do they belong to all schools?

• There are no core rules examples of (Subschool) spells that are labeled as part of another superschool.

• The flavor of spells in schools crosses boundaries. (Healing could easily be Necromantic, Complete Arcane Conjuration spells step on Evocation's toes, et cetera)

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So. Is there concrete, explicit evidence that the 8 schools of magic are mutually exclusive? Or, lacking that, is there a proponderance of circumstancial evidence that would suggest that the 8 schools of magic are mutually exclusive?

OR

Is there concrete, explicit evidence that the 8 schools of magic are not mutually exclusive? Or, lacking that, is there a proponderance of circumstancial evidence that would suggest that the 8 schools of magic are not mutually exclusive?

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If anyone would like me to add a Point To Consider, please suggest it to me as such, and I will edit it in for anyone who comes into the discussion to read at the beginning.

 

[Starglim]

Every spell belongs either to only one school or to no school. A spell-like effect also belongs to one school or no school. A supernatural ability need not, but may, belong to a school. Schools are distinct methods of magical working but may overlap in the effects that they produce (in the same way that spells, spell-like abilities and supernatural abilities overlap).

A small number of spells .. are universal, belonging to no school.

Subschools (also called types) are descriptors that refer to the expanded rules in the Magic chapter that describe the default operation of spells in each subschool. A spell or spell-like ability may or may not have a subschool (be of a type), or may have more than one alternative subschool. A supernatural ability may be of a type of magic (have a subschool).

I believe a supernatural ability that is not part of a school can be of a type (subschool). Since spells of different schools can have similar effects, and a subschool is a descriptor of the effects of the spell, I would also say that in some cases a subschool can apply to a spell of a different school than it is normally associated with.

Clearly, if this is true, the fact that a supernatural ability belongs to a subschool does not establish that the ability belongs to any school, nor specifically to the school normally associated with the subschool.

 

[Felix]

Clearly, if this is true, the fact that a supernatural ability belongs to a subschool does not establish that the ability belongs to any school, nor specifically to the school normally associated with the subschool.

This opinion answers a question from that other thread. The question here is: Are schools of magic mutually exclusive.

 

[Starglim]

To answer explicitly and briefly:

• Spell schools are mutually exclusive.
• A subschool is not a subset of a "superschool".
• A Necromancy (Calling) spell could exist.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

So, Starglim, what is the difference between a subschool and a descriptor?

 

[Starglim]

Good question. A subschool is a small-d descriptor (a defined tag that has specific game-mechanic implications) but not a Descriptor, as defined for the spell system.

 

[green slime]

To answer explicitly and briefly:

• Spell schools are mutually exclusive.
• A subschool is not a subset of a superschool.
• A Necromancy (Calling) spell could exist.

Incorrect. PHB page 172.

"Beneath the spell name is a line giving the school of magic (and the subschool, if apropriate) that the spell belongs to."

Those appropriate subschools are described in that chapter, under their respective School. There is no overlapping subschool which is described in this chapter as being part of two seperate schools. Neither Evocation, nor Necromancy, nor Transmutation have subschools.

In all the books put out by WotC, all the spells with subschools adhere to their schools as per the listing in this chapter.

 

[Thanee]

Yep, calling is a conjuration effect (and only a conjuration effect). Same with all the other subschools.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Starglim]

Incorrect. PHB page 172.

"Beneath the spell name is a line giving the school of magic (and the subschool, if apropriate) that the spell belongs to."

Those appropriate subschools are described in that chapter, under their respective School. There is no overlapping subschool which is described in this chapter as being part of two seperate schools. Neither Evocation, nor Necromancy, nor Transmutation have subschools.

In all the books put out by WotC, all the spells with subschools adhere to their schools as per the listing in this chapter.

We're back to white spheres again. Your first quote references the published description of each spell, and nothing else, as the criterion for appropriate subschools.

The glossary defines a subschool as

A category of spells within a school of magic

but this is probably incomplete, since many supernatural abilities are described as "(x) effects" in the exact wording used for subschools, and are treated in the rules as such for purposes of resistance to specific subschools, even though they are not spells and may not be similar enough to any spell to assign to a school of magic.

Wizards of the Coast have never published a Necromancy (Calling) spell but nothing would prevent them from doing so.

 

[aco175]

It seems more from a game mechanic point of view over another view to have each not cross. I was looking in Magic of Faerun and they have the spell Summon Undead, which they list as Conjuration (Summoning). Although I see where many schools have spells given types of fire, sonic, acid, etc...