Are shields underpowered?

[Someone]

I´m thinking to allow anyone who uses a shield use of the Expertise feat (but of course it doen´t count to get the other feats in the chain) After all, it´s easier to parry with a shield than with a weapon.

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

You'd probably do better by making the fight defensively option better for them as if they had 5 ranks of tumble.

(Fight defensively means -4 to hit, +3 to AC; full defense means no attacks +6 to AC if you have a shield.)

That way, there's still a point to taking expertise.

I´m thinking to allow anyone who uses a shield use of the Expertise feat (but of course it doen´t count to get the other feats in the chain) After all, it´s easier to parry with a shield than with a weapon.

 

[Jens]

On my House Rules, they do a flat +1 AC more, so Smalls are +2, Larges are +3 vs. all attacks.

I think we have a winner, at least if simplicity is any concern. I like that idea, no facing or cover or other complicated stuff.

(What do you think of giving Medium armor DR 1 and Heavy armor DR 2? The heavier armors seem weak to me with dex destrictions and all.)

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

I don't think that giving medium and heavy armors DR 1 and 2 would break the game. It would, however, significantly reduce (or dramatically increase, if you allowed it to stack with natural DR) the benefits of being a high level barbarian, templar, and dwarven Defender.

Heavy armor (by which I mean full-plate I guess; there's little reason to use the other heavy armors) seems pretty good to me already--especially when playing on a point buy system. Fullplate and a 12 dex is better than a chain shirt and an 18 dex plus you can distribute much higher stats into strength and con.

Medium armor, on the other hand, only really seems worth it when you can't afford heavy armor (early levels) or you can afford to buy mithril medium armor which offers all the benefits of light armor and slightly more protection. A medium armor which offered an AC of 6 or a medium armor with AC 5 but 30' movement (such as Arcanis's Lorica Segmentata) might make medium armor an interesting trade-off for fighters.

 

[Jack Haggerty]

Fullplate and a 12 dex is better than a chain shirt and an 18 dex plus you can distribute much higher stats into strength and con.

Hmmm...

This is why my Wizard absolutely loves ranged touch attack spells.

Anyway, back to the topic...

I don't think it would be a problem to treat shields as cover. Though you might want to alter the cover chart...

Buckler/Small shield - 10% cover (+1 AC, +0 Ref)
Large shield - 25% cover (+2 AC, +1 Ref)
Tower shield - 50% cover (+4 AC, +2 Ref, no AoOs)

 

[DonAdam]

Tower shield should still give full cover.

And with the facing thing, you wouldn't pick facing. You would, for example, with a large shield (+2 AC) declare two opponents on your turn that you were using the shield against. You would get the cover bonus against everybody, but be immune to attacks of opportunity from those two.

I agree facing is a bad idea.

Facing = double rogue flanking screwjob for people holding shields.

I would even say that magical enchantments add to the number of people the shield blocks. That's how I've always seen a magical shield, as something that moves itself to block (no need for an explanation of how, or it's not magic anymore), as opposed to armor, which is just hard.

After all, if a shield's AC bonus had anything to do with hardness, why do wooden shields work as well as metal ones? And wouldn't one successful shot pretty much sunder the shield?

Thus, I wouldn't give bonuses for adamantine shields.

 

[KarinsDad]

I make all the shields give a cover bonus (in conjunction with armour providing DR rather than harder to hit). I also allow shields to be used for "active parries" vs anything, while weapons can only be used for "active parries" vs other weapons of not more than one size bigger than you are.

I like it!

Too bad, I will not be able to convince my players to allow it.

They are just too set in their ways of "light armor rules".

The three light armor characters would rebel.