D&D 5E Are the AP's basically just a repeat of the previous complaints about FR? Why we need more short term adventures.

Frankly, this was one of those complaints that was greatly over exaggerated, and unfortunately was listened to by WoTC. The prevailance of characters and literature for the Forgotten Realms was part of the reason why it was so popular. It had a great deal of passion and work put into it. The current Forgotten Realms is more or less a pail reflection of what used to be, but it is at least a start on the path to recovery.
 

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And I find the following to be nonsense.

1: Elminster keeps putting himself in my adventures in the Realms so my players never feel like they are the stars of the show.

I have never met a fictional character that I couldn't supplant with another fictional character. If you are so fed up with this one guy, why don't you just stop using him.

Be the DM and EDIT the adventure ever so slightly. Elminster becomes Minister El, an old adventurer who is long in the tooth and shakes so violently that he can hardly drink tea without spilling, nevermind holding a staff or swinging a blade.

Why let yourself be shackled to what a book tells you?
 

I have never met a fictional character that I couldn't supplant with another fictional character. If you are so fed up with this one guy, why don't you just stop using him.

Be the DM and EDIT the adventure ever so slightly. Elminster becomes Minister El, an old adventurer who is long in the tooth and shakes so violently that he can hardly drink tea without spilling, nevermind holding a staff or swinging a blade.

Why let yourself be shackled to what a book tells you?

And to add onto this: Why are you saying you're forced to use content being released by wizards if you don't play AL either in person or online as suggested? Are you forcing yourself to use this content and then coming onto these boards to complain about using them? :Confused:

@Corpsetaker
2: Everytime Wizards puts out a book I have to buy it and allow the material in my games because I can't say no and my games end up being bloated and full of powercreep so I would rather Wizards just not print as many books. I also don't care that others won't have these options just as long as I won't have to tell my players no.
 


And to add onto this: Why are you saying you're forced to use content being released by wizards if you don't play AL either in person or online as suggested? Are you forcing yourself to use this content and then coming onto these boards to complain about using them? :Confused:

@Corpsetaker
2: Everytime Wizards puts out a book I have to buy it and allow the material in my games because I can't say no and my games end up being bloated and full of powercreep so I would rather Wizards just not print as many books. I also don't care that others won't have these options just as long as I won't have to tell my players no.

You must not have gotten the gist of my posts then.

I wrote that because those are complaints from other people.
 

Unless you are going to post something on topic please don't troll the thread.


EN World does not support the kind of thread-ownership you are trying to assert here.


What do you have to say or laugh at now?


It is time for you to back of the bluster and posturing.

Don't make it personal. Address the logic of the post, not the person of the poster. This post leads the argument into the realm of ego-clash, rather than rational discussion - which is not constructive. So, you too need to work on posting things that are constructive.

Step 1: Determine if you actually wanted to explore the question, or if your mind was made up before you started. The former is okay, but the latter is not constructive. Reading over the thread, I don't see a whole lot of the former. If you aren't of an open mind yourself, you are not building anything here.

In general, keep it civil, keep it respectful, everyone.
 


And I find the following to be nonsense.
Very well, let's play this game.

1: Elminster keeps putting himself in my adventures in the Realms so my players never feel like they are the stars of the show.
Then don't play Realms. The recent survey shows that over half of all games in 5E are homebrew. Then you don't have this problem. You can still use the APs too, as IIRC, they give advice on how to run outside of Realms.

2: Everytime Wizards puts out a book I have to buy it and allow the material in my games because I can't say no and my games end up being bloated and full of powercreep so I would rather Wizards just not print as many books. I also don't care that others won't have these options just as long as I won't have to tell my players no.
That's easy: WotC has already committed to a much slower release rate, limiting the bloat you fear. Of course, you could always grow a spine and learn that as DM your desires for the game matter too.

3: There are just too much lore for the Forgotten Realms to the point where all those words on the pages make it to where I can't filter what I want to use and what I want to ignore so it makes me to where I can't even run a game in the Realms.
Again: DON'T! Obviously you have many issues with FR. Why you feel the need to post your hate of a setting you really shouldn't be playing in, is quite beyond me.

4: Etc.....
Etc.


These big AP's "do" have an overall impact on the Realms as a whole because their goal is to have everything tie in together. Events in the Realms are going to happen a certain way no matter how the PC's do. At least with small individual adventurers they don't tie into the overall storyline.
Sure they do. The four adventure series Bloodstone Pass effected the outcome of a large area in both Faerun and the Abyss. So did Murder in Baulder's Gate. So did dozens of adventures for Greyhawk. The difference is how you deal with changes between the "official" story and what happened in your campaign. If you reboot your campaign every few years (as is common), then you can either adjust the official story to your campaign, or alter your campaign to fit the story. Every DM does this.

Just on your statistics there. You don't know what the majority want and you don't know if you are in the minority or not. If Wizards thinks they are going to make more money on something down the road, which I believe they do with regards to the movie and other merchandise, then they are going to say and do anything in order to keep the customers going in that direction, even though the majority of customers may not want it.
I don't think you understand how business works. If they keep putting out products the majority of customer's don't want, this will affect sales. It is my understanding that the APs sell very well, bu if trends change, then so will WotC. For now, that makes us the minority; deal with it.

Do you know the largest attitude I have come across with regards to the stuff now? "It's better than having nothing." Also, if you look at their pie charts then it shows that most people are playing in homebrew and not necessarily AL. AL is there to push the population into a certain direction.
Two things:

The largest attitude I have come across with regards to the stuff has been "WOW, this is awesome!" Your experience and my experience are both FAR to small a sample size to be considered valid.

AL is not there to push the population into a certain direction. It's the same setup as Living Greyhawk and Living City (which was FR). It's organized play designed after (or stolen from) Pathfinder Society. AL is currently Realms because that's the supported setting it may or may not change when they move on to other things. [Assuming you made an error, and meant AP instead of AL, then you are correct. AL is there to push the customers to enjoy a product that the apparent majority desire.
 

AL is not there to push the population into a certain direction. It's the same setup as Living Greyhawk and Living City (which was FR). It's organized play designed after (or stolen from) Pathfinder Society.
IReally? Right after mentioning two of it's predecessors that Pathfinder Society was designed after (or stolen from)
 

Through the years I have heard the same complaint about the Forgotten Realms with regards to the super NPC's everywhere. People complained they felt their characters meant nothing in the FR universe because there were all these super NPC's running around that could do the job instead.

I personally never had this problem but I acknowledge the complaint from others. Now it seems that Wizard's strategy on "story, story story" is basically just a repeat of that but in a different way. Their plan is to tie in all the stories to basically have one continuous story that all fit together. Well doesn't this basically mean that players have no overall control how the stories will turn out? In the scheme of things your characters are not going to change the outcome of how the stories end up because they need them to happen in a specific way in order to tie in things like the video games etc....
The outcome of the APs is always vague. But the heroes are always assumed to succeed or the Realms would be effed.
The is the same for every published adventure ever. Big or small. The only way to avoid this is to tell stories with no dramatic consequences for failure, if consequences at all.

Your characters won't change the outcome of the Realms. But neither will your characters in the Neverwinter MMO. We've never really been able to affect the world. But you can always affect the world in your homegame. I guarantee someone is running a campaign right now set in a Realms where Tiamat lived and escaped to plague the Sword Coast. And if you play Out of the Abyss you can totally destroy all of Menzoberranzan with a wave of demon lords.

This is why I think short term adventures should be available to everyone because the Realms is huge and things that take place in small and obscure places don't really affect the overall Realms as a whole but can affect things in specific regions.
What happens at your table is still unlikely to have a lasting effect. You're still not going to determine the impact you have on the Realms.

The thing is, they're not changing things in the Realms not because of the size of the adventures, but because they want to avoid and limit Realmshaking events that alter the world. They want bigger stories that have smaller effects, especially if you "win".
The three Time of Troubles modules were pretty small, but still allowed you to do crazy things to impact the world.


In other words, the two complaints are unrelated and have no correlation.
 

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