Are the flaming burst properties ever really worth it?

[Plane Sailing]

How's about comparing a burst weapon with an aligned (holy, unholy, etc) weapon? Both are +2 equivalent.

ummm - did you read my post #14 above?

 

[jasin]

I must admit I missed it, but yes, it sounds about right. +3d6 (or +2d10) might be reasonable for a burst weapon (you can assume that the people taking it will be the people who will be getting the most use out of it, so keen rapier wielders rather than mace wielders).

Numerically, you're probably still slightly better off getting another +1, but you could say that the joy of honkin' big criticals offsets that.

 

[pawsplay]

It has been noted that big crits are often wasted on weaker monsters. What is not noted (and will not be revealed by average damage figures) is the likelihood of ending a fight early. While low rolls early in the fight are likely to average out eventually, high rolls early in the fight could win it without taking a scratch. An additional +1 enhancement does, at most, an additional 4 or 6 points of damage. but a burst weapon could do +10, +20. against an opponent of CR roughly equal to your level, a crit could be a fight ender.

Further, this is one of the few ways of getting extra crit damage that is of an energy type.

 

[James McMurray]

Also, a lot of the figures included Power Attack as removing the +1 to hit and adding damage. If you don't have power attack, bursts for some weapons improve.

 

[Klaus]

ummm - did you read my post #14 above?

I just reread it, but I see no connection...

I ask because "Holy" adds +2d6 damage to the vast majority of PC foes, for the equivalent of a +2 bonus. "Flaming Burst" adds +1d6 constantly against non-fire resistant foes (still a large group), which increases to +1d6+1d10 on a critical hit (5-30% of hits, which must then be confirmed).

How's about this:

Flaming Burst - This weapon deals +1d6 fire damage on every hit. On a critical hit, the fire damage is automatically maximized. If the weapon has a critical multiplier of x3, the fire damage is increased by 50%. If the weapon is a x4, the fire damage is increased by +100%.

 

[James McMurray]

Flaming Burst - This weapon deals +1d6 fire damage on every hit. On a critical hit, the fire damage is automatically maximized. If the weapon has a critical multiplier of x3, the fire damage is increased by 50%. If the weapon is a x4, the fire damage is increased by +100%.

That's weaker than an average flaming burst.

 

[Nifft]

Since we've degenerated into house rules here, I'll jump in with mine.

Energy Burst: If you crit, your regular d6 of energy damage turns into a bunch of d12s instead. You get as many d12s of energy damage as your crit multiplier -- so 2d12 on a Rapier, 3d12 on a spear, and 4d12 on a scythe.

It's fun to see a lot of d12s rolling.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Machiavelli]

I think that burst weapons are preferred for characters hedging their bets on critical rolls. Tempests with keen scimitars, rangers with wands of Hunter's Mercy, that sort of thing. Of course, it's always easier to tack on a +1 enhancement when you can afford it than to save up for a while until you can afford a whopping +2, making bursts less frequently feasible. That is an economic concern shared by all +2 enhancements, not just bursts.

 

[James McMurray]

In MIC Burst is a +1 enhancement that has a synergy requirement of an energy quality, so you can buy it in two parts instead of a single +1 chunk.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I just reread it, but I see no connection...

My point was that it is better to compare the +2 equivalent flaming burst with another +2 enhancement - whether you go for two +1 energy enhancements (for +2d6 damage) or the +2 holy enhancement (for +2d6 damage) isn't the most significant factor in the calculation - both will win more in some situations and less in others. However in the vast majority of situations either the dual energy or the holy enhancement adds an average +7 to your damage.

Burst weapons 'cost' the same amount but only add an average +4.05 to your damage.

Thus what amount of extra crit damage would you theoretically need to add on a burst in order to bring the average up to the other +2 enhancements? The strict mathematics for a longsword would suggest +10d6 on a burst happening (optimistically) 10% of the time, which would give an overall average of +7 per attack during the lifetime of the weapon. However, if you take into account optimal crit situations (keen rapiers etc) which crit on 30% of the time, then +3d6 is probably a better baseline burst damage bonus.

Does that clarify my original point?