Are the new Essentials Classes too powerful?

[Aegeri]

I assume competent players because not everyone stays new forever. The problem with the Knight - indeed the essentials martial classes in a nutshell - is their lack of options ensures when the going gets tough they get going. Invariably it's tough or just poorly designed encounters (where the DM didn't realize it would be so hard - more common with a new DM actually) where the lack of options will bite them in the rear end. Every single hard encounter I've ever ran with a Knight he's fallen apart instantly - while every other defenders strengths (and general options) keep them in the running during very tough times.

Really that's an inherent problem when comparing classes who get plenty of options vs. those that don't. As I mentioned, when you NEED those options and you lack them: It's trouble. I also feel the knight is far more reliant on race and specific items than the fighter is by far.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The point of Essentials is to target new, returning, and casual players. Some may acquire system mastery rather quickly, but, others may stay 'casual.' If the game, in general, is played to the casual level of mastery, a competently powergamed fighter might be pretty good, but he won't overshadow a casually done Knight - except, of course, in peak power and general interest, because he has dailies, and encounters that do more than some extra damage. In general effectivenes, though.

Conversely, in the hands of a rank amature, the Fighter has a lot of trouble holding a candle to the Knight, which prettymuch plays itself (I've mentioned it's boring, right?).

 

[Prestidigitalis]

My own Knight (started at level 12 and abandoned at level 16) never had much problem with forced movement, but was often left without useful options by flying opponents, skirmishers who moved away during the Knight's own turn, and grabby creatures and environmental effects that kept her stuck in one place. In other cases, she was effective as a defender only by putting herself in great danger from auras, zones, etc.

Of course, that's not a problem with the Knight per se -- it's a problem with melee builds.

 

[Tony Vargas]

One advantage of stances is that many of them work with ranged basic attacks. So a Knight or Slayer may have a ranged option without even trying. You just need to carry around some javelins, or a cheap (for your level) magical heavy thrown weapon of some sort (or a 'Throwing' magic weapon, of course).

 

[gyor]

It'll be interesting to see how the heroes of shadow classes fit into this. Most of the classes ate essentials and I am curious as to how powerful they will be compared to phb one through three classes and vs the original essential classes.

 

[Tony Vargas]

With Essentials+ material, they'll probaby be roughly balanced - as balanced as possible within the looser essentials framework. Once combined with older materials, though, the classes that have higher degrees of compatibility with their parent classes will get much more of a boost.

The Mage, for instance, can use any Wizard power, and there are lots of wizard powers. There are also lots of Fighter powers, but the Slayer can only use the utilities. So when you open things up, the Mage benefits more than the Slayer. So, it depends on how the new builds relate to their parents. Completely new classes, like the Vampire, obviously, benefit little from adding old material.