Are warriors & rogues required at high level?
- Thread starter Grishnak
- Start date
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hi all! 
For what its worth I have revised the Monk Class Features; updated Skills so they take into account skill access and tweaked magic (and no longer round it down).
The current build looks like this:
1st: Cleric = +1.245 CR/Class Level
2nd: Druid = +1.217
3rd: Barbarian = +1.114
4th: Wizard = +1.112
5th: Paladin = +1.08
6th: Ranger = +1.074
7th: Sorceror = +1.072
8th: Bard = +1.061
9th: Rogue = +1.027
10th: Fighter = +1.019
11th: Monk = +1.017
The above assumes standard PC equipment as per the Core Rules.
The figure takes the average over 20 levels. I can work it out level by level, but its a bit more labourious.
I was very surprised with the turn around of the Monk class, once I eliminated the Class Features that were really just giving it parity* it really dived, although I think I may have double deleted for something - so it could really be in 9th place, rather than 11th, I'll have to check.
*Most of which would be replaced in a low-magic campaign (S'mon).
For what its worth I have revised the Monk Class Features; updated Skills so they take into account skill access and tweaked magic (and no longer round it down).
The current build looks like this:
1st: Cleric = +1.245 CR/Class Level
2nd: Druid = +1.217
3rd: Barbarian = +1.114
4th: Wizard = +1.112
5th: Paladin = +1.08
6th: Ranger = +1.074
7th: Sorceror = +1.072
8th: Bard = +1.061
9th: Rogue = +1.027
10th: Fighter = +1.019
11th: Monk = +1.017
The above assumes standard PC equipment as per the Core Rules.
The figure takes the average over 20 levels. I can work it out level by level, but its a bit more labourious.
I was very surprised with the turn around of the Monk class, once I eliminated the Class Features that were really just giving it parity* it really dived, although I think I may have double deleted for something - so it could really be in 9th place, rather than 11th, I'll have to check.
*Most of which would be replaced in a low-magic campaign (S'mon).
reapersaurus
Explorer
I'd really look into why Rogue is showing so low in your rating system, Upper Krust....
skills are not an after-thought in 3E. Skills are arguably more powerful, and dominant than combat - they are what make combats not happen, what set up combat advantageously for your side, what save your life by not getting seen or getting the trap sprung, etc.
And any time a system ranks the BARD 8th.. you know there's something wrong there.
They're dead last, by far.
skills are not an after-thought in 3E. Skills are arguably more powerful, and dominant than combat - they are what make combats not happen, what set up combat advantageously for your side, what save your life by not getting seen or getting the trap sprung, etc.
And any time a system ranks the BARD 8th.. you know there's something wrong there.
They're dead last, by far.
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey reapersaurus mate!
I am looking into a new method of rating skills.
However, proprietry tests show that if implemented both the Bard and Rogue gain +0.07* and most of the other classes lose -0.01* and the Monk gains +0.01*
*All approximations.
So their high skill point allocations is useless, is that what you are saying?
reapersaurus said:
I am looking into a new method of rating skills.
However, proprietry tests show that if implemented both the Bard and Rogue gain +0.07* and most of the other classes lose -0.01* and the Monk gains +0.01*
*All approximations.
reapersaurus said:And any time a system ranks the BARD 8th.. you know there's something wrong there.
They're dead last, by far.
So their high skill point allocations is useless, is that what you are saying?
Upper_Krust
Legend
Hey Thanee mate!
I think Bards just overshadow Rogues...no pun intended.
Thanks mate!
Its simply a matter of rating all the appropriate factors.
Indeed. Bauglirs thread seems to show the Cleric as the primary class. While Wizards are rated second ahead of Druids; I think this is due to the class being less played than Wizards though, rather than any real power deficit.
Thanee said:Bards are pretty cool, actually!
I think Bards just overshadow Rogues...no pun intended.
Thanee said:UK, this list looks a lot more reasonable!
Thanks mate!
Its simply a matter of rating all the appropriate factors.
Thanee said:
Indeed. Bauglirs thread seems to show the Cleric as the primary class. While Wizards are rated second ahead of Druids; I think this is due to the class being less played than Wizards though, rather than any real power deficit.
Thanee said:Funny enough, in our current campaign, the Monk is the one who died the most (most often by simple damage), maybe on par with the Fighter/Rogue. My Cleric is the only character that hasn't died yet (but only due to some very lucky Fortitude saves
IMC it's the Clerics who've died most, largely due to overuse of the Shield Other spell.
Since the campaign started in earnest, PC deaths I recall have been:
Fighter-Monk (4th level, meleeing an Ettin)
Sorcerer (walked into gelatinous cube)
Sorcerer (captured & executed while his two Monk buddies fled)
__________________________________________ (mostly new group)_____
Cleric (flattened by red dragon while meleeing it & using Shield Other)
Fighter-Duellist (charged Frost Giant barbarian while on 25hp)
Cleric (meleeing a god's avatar while using Shield Other on a planatar he summoned)
green slime
First Post
S'mon said:IMC it's the Clerics who've died most, largely due to overuse of the Shield Other spell.
Since the campaign started in earnest, PC deaths I recall have been:
Fighter-Monk (4th level, meleeing an Ettin)
Sorcerer (walked into gelatinous cube)
Sorcerer (captured & executed while his two Monk buddies fled)
__________________________________________ (mostly new group)_____
Cleric (flattened by red dragon while meleeing it & using Shield Other)
Fighter-Duellist (charged Frost Giant barbarian while on 25hp)
Cleric (meleeing a god's avatar while using Shield Other on a planatar he summoned)
Strange habit your group has. Are they trying to effectively halve their hit point total? I can appreciate them using shield other, but then I would have thought that they would have the sense to stay out of melee...
Lord Vangarel
First Post
Hi Grishnak,
Sorry to hear that you haven't enjoyed the game recently. I too have times when I don't enjoy the game and as the DM that can be a problem. I'd be the first to admit that our games seem to be in a rut and that I prefer lower level games.
While some may be down to character choice the DM at the end of day should create varied adventures with a mix of encounter types not all of which should be combat!
Anyway, could you answer one question please, without dragging Hackenslash's game into this too much, how did you find the game last week in regards to your general feelings to D&D? Did it help or are your feelings about D&D in general. We've been gaming along time and it would be a serious shame for you to drop out. I know I did a few years ago for 12 months but I had a variety of personal reasons for doing that. Anyway please reply.
Chris
Sorry to hear that you haven't enjoyed the game recently. I too have times when I don't enjoy the game and as the DM that can be a problem. I'd be the first to admit that our games seem to be in a rut and that I prefer lower level games.
While some may be down to character choice the DM at the end of day should create varied adventures with a mix of encounter types not all of which should be combat!
Anyway, could you answer one question please, without dragging Hackenslash's game into this too much, how did you find the game last week in regards to your general feelings to D&D? Did it help or are your feelings about D&D in general. We've been gaming along time and it would be a serious shame for you to drop out. I know I did a few years ago for 12 months but I had a variety of personal reasons for doing that. Anyway please reply.
Chris
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