Are you a killer DM?

[I'm A Banana]

I'm not sure how to explain it any more clearly than this. I do know that I've had much, much more fun in RP sessions in which I knew death would only come when it would advance the storyline than I've had in sessions where death was at the whim of the dice.

I think I have it both ways. ^_^

Using the CR-ECL system, there is rarely a large danger of killing the PC's in a battle. Most of the time, they can handle an encounter of their CR and come away healthy for it.

So most of my encounters have PC's fighting of-CR creatures. This means that I can roll in the open and not really threaten them. Usually, one charater might get knocked unconcious by the end of the day...no biggie, since they can be healed up to full in a few round's time (Yay for white mages! )

Thus, the PC's almost never get killed by "the mooks" so to speak.

But then I have my "boss level" encounteres that usually are 3-4 CR points above the player's level. These, are dangerous. And they're significant. And I still pretty much don't fudge. These are the battles that success or failure hinges on, for the most part.

So if a character gets killed here, they've died at the hands of true wickedness, not some random trap. They still feel that they've done something important, and their death increases the fear of their adversary.

I run very plot-driven adventures...I never TPK, and I've never had more than one character die at once...the plot really isn't weakened much by it, if most of the characters are preserved.

If they do fail, it is the death of a real character, and the world reacts to it. If they flee or are killed, their death has an effect on the world....the Dark Lord rises after all, and their *new* characters have to deal with the effects on their personal lives.

I demand fleshed-out characters...death is never trivial. But it is always in force.

That said, I do have one player who seems to enjoy creating new characters so much that he'll shout for joy if he dies......so I'm more dangerous with his character.

There is no correct way to do it, really. It very much depends on the campaign and the group. Right now, I'm running a super-cinematic campaign where I have told the players that they probably won't die. After that, death may be a common thing...it varies.

 

[9lives]

Fenzer Killed Me Again!!!!

Good old Fenzer is our DM for the RttToEE and Ya, the mines are a bitch. I have lost 4 guys (Grim; Dwarf/Ftr, Ringland Elf/Pal, Abdiel Elf/Expert/Psionic Wilder, Roslyn Elan/Psion) of mine including the Bear that my Dwarf Grim rode. 1 pc that I was playing for another guy, 1 almost kill of our Sorcerer, but we pulled off some Cleric Spell to save his life.

He has killed 2 other PC's that other players were playing.

I don't think he has anything to worry about anymore. His 3 year dry spell is up.

That is OK. We are playing Worlds Largest Dungeon now and 3 of his PC's have bought the farm in that one with me DM'ing. Not my fault though. Blame it on the module.

See Fenzers Digital Graveyard post for a few of the obituaries.

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92494

 

[Jürgen Hubert]

I've now come to the conclusion that killer DMs display a sad lack of ambition.

Death is a sweet relase. You can only truly torture player characters by keeping them alive...

 

[Berandor]

I like it if my players stay alive. I like it as a player if my character stays alive. As a player, I am very, very prone to "cinematic" gestures and undertakings (just ask my group). As a DM, I like to visualize my players doing these things.
But if I know my character's not going to die, I lose interest in the game. What's the point in making the crucial saving throw if the poison wouldn't kill me, anyway? Watch me try a heroic stunt and nearly get eaten by stupid dogs simply for bad die rolls. To me, the uncertainty of rolling dice must include total failure - character death - to be fully fulfilling.
Taking part in great, character-driven stories is probably my main draw for playing RPGs, but the effects of chance and the very real danger my hero is in is not something I would abstain from easily.

 

[Virel]

I've been told I'll get flamed for mentioning 1st ed AD&D on this forum but I think the topic transends the flavor of choice for playing D&D.

While I DM a 1st ed AD&D game, it is very similar to a 3e game that I play in regarding death. The dice fall where they may. The DM will not save players from suffering the results of ill considered choices.

Out of 15 PC's there have been 6 deaths in five months. In each case the players decisions resulted in death occuring.

The AD&D group played from 1980-1995 IMC, then we took nine years off and started playing again in Aug of 2004. It's a very mature group that expects danger and being challenged. Death is required to be real and possible for max enjoyment of the game for my group. Most of the deaths were the result of being rusty at playing. I expect the number to decline as players become refreshed. This is a key part of our idea of fun.

For fresh ideas and new challeges for the old AD&D group, I happily rob what I think are the best of the 3e/3.5e products.

Other groups play with a different style and as long as they fun that's all that really matters.

 

[Berandor]

Consider also that death has been made much more unlikely due to 3Es dying rules and other constraints. So being dropped to negative hit points is often enough for me if I know I could really die (I = character)

 

[Chant in the Box]

My attitude depend on the party power level. To be more precise, it depends on if the cleric can bring back the dead. If this is the case, the cleric is likely to be a prime target for the adversaries if they have a reasonable possibility to know that he can bring back the dead. And then, he heals large amounts of damage so they have another reason to kill him first. Finally, it's likely that a spellcaster will fall first if the gaming party are not cautious enough. Given the years of experience I have as a DM, I know plenty of tactics to make them pay for any mistakes and I'm still discovering new dirty tricks from time to time.

I will resume it like this: my game gets deadlier if the players don't make sure the cleric survives the encounters at higher levels.

My reason to see it that way is that D&D is the most PC friendly game system I ever played.

 

[fenzer]

Yes, I have mended my ways over the last few years.

We began playing Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil at about the time I started this post and since then there have been a number of deaths. The mines are a dangerous place, indeed. Interestingly enough, the dying started about the time 9lives joined the group.

Not to hijack my own thread but despite the fact we started Temple years ago, going on three, we just finished the creator ridge mines. Granted it was a spectacular fight to the death with the Fire Temple and a great finally to them mines. We still have a long way to go. I don't know what that says about us but it has been a long running campaign and real blast. Monte has out done himself.

Anyway, Berandor elequantly stated exactly my concern when I started this post. The excitement this game generates is largely derived from the risk prevelent in it. The more memorable moments for me are of near death escapes and heroic sacrifices. While 9lives and others in my group have lost characters, not one of those characters will be forgotten. That is what makes this game great.

 

[Virel]

Consider also that death has been made much more unlikely due to 3Es dying rules and other constraints. So being dropped to negative hit points is often enough for me if I know I could really die (I = character)

Understood.

I copied the 10% stablize in the neg's even without someone attending the wounded etc. Death is at -11 hp as I house rule -10 serious injury just short of death.

Yet, of the six deaths...

1-PC elf tried on the pretty magical necklace because it matched her outfit in the dungeon setting. Should have tested on an orc or something as it was a necklace of strangulation and it killed her.

1-PC dinking around with a poison gas trap, he knew was a poison gas trip, triggered trap and failed save vs poision.

1-PC failed a save vs a 5d6 fireball

1-PC fell, down stairs, then a pit, then another pit, then another pit, decided to conserve the healing magic so he rushed into combat unhealed. Ankheg spit on him. He failed save and died.

1-PC fell fighting assassins during an assassination attempt. He would have survived but the Ranger rolled a pair of natural 1's when firing his bow into the melee. Random chance caused one of the arrows to hit the PC who was at -7 hp. The arrow killed him by putting him at -13.

1-PC 1st level illusionist, didn't retreat beyond the reach of the Lesser Cyclops when melee started. On the 4th round of combat, by random determination the Cyclops whacked the PC. The hit was fatal.

 

[Amaroq]

My group is very heavy on the playing-of-a-role aspect of the game, and very light on the game-mechanics-of-combat aspect of the game. The group includes role-players who are good enough at separating "I the player" from "The character" that the characters act as though combat could be lethal, even if the players haven't seen a character die recently; the group tends to get bored with a dungeon-slog.

Personally, as a player in a world-spanning campaign, I'd find it very frustrating to lose a character I'd been playing for 3 years to a random-chance encounter with some mook who got lucky; conversely, if my character found himself in a position to sacrifice his life for a cause, I'd be very satisfied with a heroic character death. In a one-off or short campaign, I wouldn't care as much: I haven't had as much time to empathize with the character, so 'losing' him wouldn't hurt as much.

As a DM, I want to tell an epic world-spanning tale; that requires some amount of continuity. I don't want to see a TPK, and I don't want to play with 'save or die' mechanics: I want both my PC's and my BBEG's to have long-lasting 'epic' battles with each other, not two-round magical explosions.

That said, I'm not going to treat the character with 'kid gloves' just because he's a PC: One of the most memorable PC deaths in one of my campaigns went as follows: Its the middle of winter. PC(a fighter)'s river-boat is attacked by pirates (random encounter). As the crew dies around him, he realizes that the battle is untenable. The crew start to surrender. 'I dive into the river.' 'Uhhh... are you sure? Its winter, the water is little above freezing, and the air is well below, AND you're wearing armor...' 'Umm.. yeah, I dive in.' PC actually made the succession of swim checks to get out of the armor and reach shore, but was unable to light a fire, and while freezing to death was stumbled over by a pack of wolves...

Had he surrendered, there were chances to live; had he fought to -1 HP, I might have seen fit to stabilize the character, or have the pirates recognize that he wasn't just an average part of the crew, and save him for ransom... but diving into the freezing water?

Interestingly, I've also run the sort of world which someone described much earlier: highly planned out, with NPC's, monsters, etc., of high level 'available' for the determined 1st-level party to go die on; the players knew that there wasn't any guarantee that any encounter was 'balanced' to their level. This led to a very low-combat game with no PC deaths! The players were very unwilling to draw their swords, since they had trouble determining if the enemy was an appropriate encounter or not, and several encounters that came to blows resulted in a subsequent disengagement. YMMV.