ARG Improved Grab & Constrict KILL SMASH

[MarkB]

My bad! I'll make my question more precise:
The scorpion makes a full attack, hits with the first attack and successfully starts a grapple. Can it make another grapple check with its second claw and then with its stinger?

No. However, if its BAB is high enough that it would gain iterative attacks when wielding a weapon, it gains iterative Grapple attempts along the same lines. Alternatively, it can take a -20 penalty to its Grapple checks to use only its claw to grapple, freeing up its other natural weapons to attack other creatures.

The big question I come up against with Constrict is how broadly to interpret the phrase "after making a successful grapple check". Does the creature deal Constriction damage with every successful Grapple check it makes, including checks to pin or move an opponent? What about when it successfully opposes an opponent's grapple check?

 

[blargney the second]

By that point, if you can't fly, teleport, walk up walls or go incorporeal, you deserve to get eaten.

However, the Half-Dragon Colossal Scorpion... he can fly, too.

Cheers, -- N

You know, for some reason I always forget that the template adds wings.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Cool, thanks for the help, Hypersmurf.

So I take it that making a full attack with multiple natural attacks doesn't let you make more than one grapple check?

The advantage the scorpion has is that if he hits with one claw and fails to establish a hold, he isn't grappling and can attack with his other claw, which gives him a second chance at getting into the grapple.

-Hyp.

 

[blargney the second]

No. However, if its BAB is high enough that it would gain iterative attacks when wielding a weapon, it gains iterative Grapple attempts along the same lines. Alternatively, it can take a -20 penalty to its Grapple checks to use only its claw to grapple, freeing up its other natural weapons to attack other creatures.

The big question I come up against with Constrict is how broadly to interpret the phrase "after making a successful grapple check". Does the creature deal Constriction damage with every successful Grapple check it makes, including checks to pin or move an opponent? What about when it successfully opposes an opponent's grapple check?

Thanks for the continuing help, guys.

Those were my next questions, MarkB.

 

[blargney the second]

A few more questions:
1) If the scorpion makes a successful AoO, can it start a grapple? Some free actions can be done outside your turn...
2) Can it start a grapple if it successfully attacks when the druid casts snake's swiftness on it, or it is subject to some other effect that to grants attacks outside its turn?
3) If it's already in a grapple and is subject to such an effect, can it make a grapple check?
4) Would the scorpion be able to make multiple grapple checks in a single turn if it is currently benefiting from haste or a similar effect that grants extra attacks?

 

[Hypersmurf]

A few more questions:
1) If the scorpion makes a successful AoO, can it start a grapple? Some free actions can be done outside your turn...

Strictly, no. The free actions that can occur outside your turn are labelled as such - namely, speaking and casting Feather Fall. And Feather Fall becomes an immediate action if you've introduced any of various supplements, leaving only speaking.

Other free actions happen during your turn... so initiating the grapple as a free action isn't possible on an AoO outside of your turn.

3) If it's already in a grapple and is subject to such an effect, can it make a grapple check?

Yes - you can use the Damage Your Opponent option in place of an attack.

4) Would the scorpion be able to make multiple grapple checks in a single turn if it is currently benefiting from haste?

Yes.

(3 and 4 could be debated, if someone argued that only attacks deriving from a high BAB can be subsituted; but it reads to me as additional clarification on "take the place of an attack", rather than a restriction.)

-Hyp.

 

[blargney the second]

Gotcha. And last but not least, MarkB's eminently pertinent questions: "The big question I come up against with Constrict is how broadly to interpret the phrase "after making a successful grapple check". Does the creature deal Constriction damage with every successful Grapple check it makes, including checks to pin or move an opponent? What about when it successfully opposes an opponent's grapple check?"

 

[frankthedm]

Gotcha. And last but not least, MarkB's eminently pertinent questions: "The big question I come up against with Constrict is how broadly to interpret the phrase "after making a successful grapple check". Does the creature deal Constriction damage with every successful Grapple check it makes, including checks to pin or move an opponent? What about when it successfully opposes an opponent's grapple check?"

Yes, improved grab / constrict damage happens on a 'pin' or other grapple options that succeed. Also improved grabbers can move with their victim, without making checks.

I do feel the part about successive rounds means only the grapple checks the creature initiates, deal the improved grab / constrict damage.

If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

I have always read the Contstrict damage to occur at the end of the critter's actions in the round, and only once despite the number of grapple checks attempted.

 

[frankthedm]

I have always read the Contstrict damage to occur at the end of the critter's actions in the round, and only once despite the number of grapple checks attempted.

I am curious, what parts of the text brought you to that conclusion?

Constrict
A creature with this special attack can crush an opponent, dealing bludgeoning damage, after making a successful grapple check. The amount of damage is given in the creature’s entry. If the creature also has the improved grab ability it deals constriction damage in addition to damage dealt by the weapon used to grab.

.................

each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).

Sure sounds like the constrict damage lands each time. Though i also won't deny it is very brutal. I personally house rule that half the damage from constrict is subdual, since one should pass out quite a bit before dying from being hugged.

Anyway here is the image i worked on for this one.