Arguments and assumptions against multi classing

[Nick Nick]

I’m new here and just want to say how OUTRAGED I am .

Thankyou

 

[The Crimson Binome]

I am very glad that 5e PCs cannot have their powers taken away, RAW. If the DM does, he is abusing rule zero to do so, and may lose his players as a result.

If you want to stick with RAW, then the DM is in charge of playing all NPCs, including the omniscient and omnipotent deities. The DM is entirely within RAW to say that the cleric or warlock loses their magical ability when they gravely offend their patron deity, because that is what the patron would do in those circumstances. If you make a pact with a deity, and then turn your back on them, you would be lucky if you get to retire in obscurity rather than being struck down and tortured for all eternity.

If the player isn't going to play their character seriously, then they are abusing the good will of the entire group (who have devoted significant time and effort to the campaign), and such a player is unlikely to be welcome back regardless.

 

[smbakeresq]

If we make a pact where I lend you my lawn mower and you agree to mow my lawn, and you welch on your side of the agreement, you don't immediately and automatically lose the lawn mower. Our pact is the source of the lawn mower - you wouldn't have gotten the lawn mower without the pact - but once the lawn mower is in your possession, the source of it is immaterial to the fact that you have it. I'm certainly going to be pissed at you for welching, and I'm going to do everything in my power to get my lawn mower back, and if I'm a god or devil then you are in a perilous position indeed. For the moment, though, you have the lawn mower and can do whatever you like with it.

Of course, if instead of a lawn mower I am lending you my Netflix password, then the situation changes dramatically.

All of this is to say that while your interpretation is not objectively wrong based on the evidence, it's not objectively right either. It all depends on the nature of the magic being granted.

The lawnmower is a physical object so it’s completely irrelevant.

The password is somewhat relevant, but you can change the password as you stated.


In these cases the powers you are being granted are mystical powers granted by a magical/mystical contract with all terms dictated by a being of great power whose purposes and goals are it own. It certainly would have power to just take away your powers in an instant, or at the very least send a powerful servant to just kill you.

 

[smbakeresq]

I didn’t know people played by the theory of “if it isn’t explicitly stated and banned in the rules then f**k it, exploit it to the max!!!!!!”

In only a few cases is explicitly stated in the rules that moving creatures make noise, but at my table all of them do. It’s a rule set as a framework, it’s not like the books came off the mountain on tablets.

Have some spirit and and understand and figure out what’s logical and consistent and in the spirit of what the game is.

 

[TheCosmicKid]

The lawnmower is a physical object so it’s completely irrelevant.

Is it your contention that nothing except a physical object could possibly have these properties? That it is incoherent for a person to be granted power or privilege or title or knowledge or some other non-phyical thing, and to turn that grant against its intended use?

In these cases the powers you are being granted are mystical powers granted by a magical/mystical contract with all terms dictated by a being of great power whose purposes and goals are it own. It certainly would have power to just take away your powers in an instant...

"Certainly"? You know this from your extensive real-world experience with mystical powers, perhaps?

...or at the very least send a powerful servant to just kill you.

Did you miss the part where I wrote, "I'm going to do everything in my power to get my lawn mower back, and if I'm a god or devil then you are in a perilous position indeed"?

 

[Warpiglet]

The lawnmower is a physical object so it’s completely irrelevant.

The password is somewhat relevant, but you can change the password as you stated.


In these cases the powers you are being granted are mystical powers granted by a magical/mystical contract with all terms dictated by a being of great power whose purposes and goals are it own. It certainly would have power to just take away your powers in an instant, or at the very least send a powerful servant to just kill you.

By extension if the DM sends a vision from a patron and your character does not accept and complete a task they are either rendered unable to adventure or may be killed outright with no way around it.

If that is the case the player better enjoy a lack of free will. Ick! Sounds like a major railroad. No thanks. I don't think that is in the spirit of the rules at all. Consequences? Sure. But immediate loss of levels or death? I will just let the DM write their novel in peace while I seek a game!

I will say it this too. If that was in fact RAI, it is something I would seek to remedy ASAP. The game is meant to be customized as needed. If that is what the class requires, would that even be fun?

In some of the narrative they talk about striving against a patron's aims. How can you if you have no powers? Worse yet, what about the character that chances into a pact as described. They did not want he pact per se and now they have to do what the patron says or face oblivion (in terms of ability to adventure)?

A talk with the DM would hopefully take place so that I could select absolutely anything else to play.

 

[Salthorae]

Are we talking white room theorycrafting or actual play experience.

Because, IME, paladin is almost never chosen as a second class. Fighters are by far the most common second class IME. I've yet to see a player start as one class and then MC into paladin. Maybe my group is just strange.

We have a PC doing that right now because of story! He is a Fighter (EK) and our group met with a spirit or deity (unclear to us) of Vengeance and the PC is now going to start taking paladin levels to go Oath of Vengeance.

 

[Hussar]

The lawnmower is a physical object so it’s completely irrelevant.

The password is somewhat relevant, but you can change the password as you stated.


In these cases the powers you are being granted are mystical powers granted by a magical/mystical contract with all terms dictated by a being of great power whose purposes and goals are it own. It certainly would have power to just take away your powers in an instant, or at the very least send a powerful servant to just kill you.

This is making some serious presumptions about the setting though.

What would a Great Old One care about how a warlock used his or her powers? How could you possibly know what a Great Old One wants?

The thing to remember here is that the Patron's are going to take a VERY long view of things. The day to day stuff that the PC does is most like way, WAY below their notice.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I am not against multi classing in general, but I have two criteria: it needs to follow what’s been going on in the game, and it can’t be two classes that fundamentally oppose each other.

With the first, it’s things like a PC being a fighter, doing fighter things his or her whole life and adventuring career, and then suddenly gaining a level and being a wizard with those wizard abilities. If you want to multiclass into a wizard, then at some point you should have been telling me how you’re hanging out with the wizard to learn magic, or the equivalent.

With the second, the most common example is the cleric who milticlasses into a warlock or similar. If your cleric powers are granted to you by being a faithful servant of X god who is goodly, then X god is going to have issue with you making a pact with a demon for example.

 

[jgsugden]

How would I find out?

And if he did, he blocked me because of one post which said that I fundamentally disagreed with his stance on multiclassing?

Seems an extreme reaction to a civilised post...!

I block a good number of people. Some after one post that tells me all I want to know about them. All it means is I'm happier not seeing their posts... it doesn't mean I think they are bad people.

Don't worry about it. If it looks like someone blocked you, it just means they miss out on seeing your ideas. If they say anything worthwhile, it is likely to be quoted anyways.