Armor as DR and light weapons

[Terath Ninir]

He said he's using the variant from UA, which is exactly that.

Didn't realize that, actually! I have used the race and class variants, but I've barely glanced at the rest.

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Most of the GMs who have armor as DR only give half the bonus to DR, and the other half still goes to AC. It won't entirely fix the problem you have, but they find that it works much more effectively for them.

I've actually been going a step further-- armor grants half its armor value to DR... and the other half just goes away. It works fairly well with Class Defense Bonus.

 

[Li Shenron]

You're making seriously good points

I'm using the "Armor as DR" variant from Unearthed Arcana, but I'm running into a somewhat annoying problem-- one of my PCs is using two daggers, and unless he pulls off his Sneak Attack, is practically incapable of damaging any armored opponent.

...

Are there any other suggestions for how to make daggers or other piercing weapons more effective against armored characters when using this variant?

I think this is a built-in problem of the variant. IIRC armor is changed so that the AC bonus is halved and it grants an equal amount of DR, right?

While it makes for a very interesting change of the game, it's not realistic as many think and your example is the proof. That DR represents the fact that the armor hardness turns blows into lesser damage, but that doesn't take into account that no armor covers one's body completely (except natural armor and perhaps the full plate).

I don't have a suggestion right now, I just wanted to mention this. Eventually the only things coming to mind involve modifying the variant itself, which I think you don't want to do. Maybe something about applying DR when you hit the AC without armor but not the AC with armor (representing the fact that the armor reduces damage only when you hit the armor, not the uncovered spaces between the armor).

 

[HalfOrc HalfBiscuit]

I'm using the "Armor as DR" variant from Unearthed Arcana, but I'm running into a somewhat annoying problem-- one of my PCs is using two daggers, and unless he pulls off his Sneak Attack, is practically incapable of damaging any armored opponent.

....

Are there any other suggestions for how to make daggers or other piercing weapons more effective against armored characters when using this variant?

I don't own UA so am not fully conversant with the variant rule in use, but the following has occurred to me when musing on similar ideas:

Consider adding a bonus to damage equal to the amount by which the attack roll (with all relevant modifiers) exceeds the AC. Thus an attacker rolling 4 more than needed to hit the AC would, if using the dagger from your example, do damage equal to d4 + 4 + STR mod.

I haven't worked this through in full, but it would, I'm pretty sure, result in more damage and therefore more lethal combat than standard rules - whether this is a Good Thing or a Bad Thing I leave to you.

In order to stop the extra damage getting out of hand (which could otherwise be the case with high BAB types attacking low AC types), it might be an idea to limit the max damage bonus to the max damage that can normally be rolled for the weapon (i.e. the bonus for a dagger couldn't exceed + 4, no matter how good the strike).

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Eventually the only things coming to mind involve modifying the variant itself, which I think you don't want to do.

I've already done so-- it was modified before I even started the game, and I've modified it again.

Thanks for all your help, all of you. I think I've got it.

First, I'm using a modified form of the variant, in which the Armor's value is halved (round up) to determine DR value, and then provides no AC bonus. Natural armor functions the same way, but humanoids (by shape, not type) have reduced DR values (1/- DR for 1 natural armor bonus, then +1/- for every three full points), while non-humanoids calculate armor the same way.

Certain weapons have the trait "Armor Piercing", which halves the DR granted by armor or natural armor.

Adamantine weapons ignore non-adamantine armor (including natural armor). Adamantine armor protects against adamatine weapons and non-adamantine Armor Piercing weapons.

Players may choose to make a Called Shot, at -4, in order to disregard armor. This does not work against natural armor.