[Article] Wandering Monsters - Wandering Deities and Demigods ;)


log in or register to remove this ad


howandwhy99

Adventurer
I like it. It was well thought out and an important topic for a game with clerics.

I hate to be nitpicky, especially when so many of my answers to the questions lined up with others, but one question felt like an "All of the Above" almost all the time:
1. They worship many different gods on different occasions—sacrificing to the god of the sea before an ocean voyage, for example.
2. Each person is personally devoted to a single god within the pantheon.
3. People go about their business, hoping the gods don’t notice them.
My experience is type of worship is very culturally specific. The Theocracy of the Pale might have by outward appearances all its members followers of a single god. While the nearby Bandit Kindoms is probably a mix of all three types of individuals.
 

Raith5

Adventurer
I found this interesting. Personally I would like to see more about gods with multiple religions or sects - and bring a bit more murky politics into the life of being a cleric.
 

Plaguescarred

D&D Playtester for WoTC since 2012
A loose pantheon is the model the dominant religion follow in my campaign and i usually use an established fantasy pantheon from a published campaign setting like FR or Greyhawk. Therefore reading about alternative models of religions in D&D doesn't really inspire me to create alternative faiths for my campaign. I think it'd be great if the DMG would have advice for implementing these alternatives for those interested though. Ordinary people in my campaign worship many different gods depending on situation but the gods are not involved that much,they might occasionally send guidance or inspiration to their most faithful mortal clerics, but even then, those high priest don't know much about their divine business.
 

Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
I liked the article.

I used a loose pantheon where the member meddle a lot and sometimes are killed and replaced by beings Inc different alignments.

Another uses 3 deities
 

delericho

Legend
A hugely frustrating article, I'm afraid. James Wyatt writes about something he's very clearly an expert in... and says nothing of consequence. Basically, they're keen to make sure you can continue doing whatever you have been doing... oh, and they're retconning bits of the FR pantheon but doing it in such a way that if you did make the change then that's good too.

Sigh.

What I would have liked to see is either one of two things:

- What tools is 5e going to provide the DM to help flesh out his pantheon (or, indeed, god)? Perhaps more importantly, what tools is 5e going to provide the DM to help flesh out the religions that appear in his setting? (Oddly, D&D tends to provide more of the former than the latter, where the latter would probably be vastly more useful for most groups. I don't need to know that Vecna is a CR40 threat if my PCs are 1st level, but it might well be useful to know how his mortal church is organised and what secrets they might hold on the citizens of Genericburg.)

- A discussion of the assumptions 5e will be making wrt killing the gods. Are the gods going to be assumed to be untouchable? Are they just another category of monsters PCs might face? Or (my personal preference) are they going to stick with the 4e model where it's assumed that top-level PCs can perhaps, just maybe, kill a god... provided they've quested beforehand for just the right artifacts, performed the ritual to weaken the deity, and otherwise gotten every advantage it is possible to get.
 

Alzrius

The EN World kitten
A hugely frustrating article, I'm afraid. James Wyatt writes about something he's very clearly an expert in... and says nothing of consequence. Basically, they're keen to make sure you can continue doing whatever you have been doing... oh, and they're retconning bits of the FR pantheon but doing it in such a way that if you did make the change then that's good too.

Yeah, that was my take-away too.

That said, my expectations for this area are so low as to be abysmal. D&D has simply never made (what I consider to be) a very good presentation of sentient, interventionist deities in a fantasy world. To be fair, I do think that they've tried, and there's certainly been some credible attempts to do so (e.g. 2E FR's Faiths & Avatars series of books).

The major problem, in my view, is that they keep treating religions as a bottom-up presentation (e.g. present the mortal church at its most accessible level, with the description tapering off as you go up the hierarchy, culminating in only an abridged explanation for how things are arranged once you transcend the mortal religion and move into the realm of the deity and their planar servants).

I call this a problem because having thinking, active deities means that they'll be continuously engaged - with their churches, with other gods, with political machinations, etc. - and in doing so set the directions that trickle down throughout their planar servants and mortal church(es). Religions in this context are much more easily defined from the top down, rather than the reverse.

This, however, is a problem because acknowledging what deities are trying to accomplish implicitly opens the dialogue regarding what their capabilities are, which is the first step towards giving the gods some sort of statistics (as statistics are the hallmark of quantification, which is how you judge limitations - and gods must have limitations, otherwise they wouldn't be trying to do anything - they'd just do it).

Unfortunately, even the vaguest specter of "stats for gods" seems to send quite a lot of gamers into a complete breakdown, for a variety of reasons. Hence, we'll probably never see this approach, even though it seems (to me) to be the one that'd work best.

Of course, I am somewhat biased in this regard; I just finished reading The Primal Order (now available in POD and PDF), which I think is the greatest book on gods in RPGs ever written, and this is the view it advocates (which I wholeheartedly agree with).
 

DMZ2112

Chaotic Looseleaf
More evidence that they've run out of things to write about.

Really? We're yammering for weeks about Strength-bonus damage on a miss, how to award experience points, and (gods save us) the value of alignment, and /they've/ run out of things to write about?
 

TwoSix

Dirty, realism-hating munchkin powergamer
Really? We're yammering for weeks about Strength-bonus damage on a miss, how to award experience points, and (gods save us) the value of alignment, and /they've/ run out of things to write about?
Yea, I don't think they're trying hard enough. Next week's WM column should be "D&D Next vs Pathfinder: Why We're Better".
 

Remove ads

Top