D&D 5E (2024) Artificer: Spell Storing Item?

[Blue]

In situations where the wording is unclear - which is always going to occur, because English is an unclear language - then you have to ask what is the purpose of the rule? And the purpose of all D&D rules is to make the game fun.

Trying to pedantically parse the exact wording, when the person who wrote it clearly didn't consider it important, does not make the game fun. Extending that kind of thinking on a wider scale is why lawyers get paid such ridiculous amounts of money, and we still don't get any justice.

I don't disagree with what you have written here, but it doesn't address what I said at all. What I disagree with is what you said earlier, where those interpretations are fine as long as they don't "break the game" by making it "far more powerful than any other class". The bar for house rules should me more reasonable than that.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

In situations where the wording is unclear - which is always going to occur, because English is an unclear language - then you have to ask what is the purpose of the rule? And the purpose of all D&D rules is to make the game fun.

Trying to pedantically parse the exact wording, when the person who wrote it clearly didn't consider it important, does not make the game fun. Extending that kind of thinking on a wider scale is why lawyers get paid such ridiculous amounts of money, and we still don't get any justice.

The issue is that new DMs who aren't yet happy houseruling, and situations like Adventurer's League, where the rules must be followed consistently, require you to parse and abide by the exact wording.

To be blunt: The rules should be written so that they work as written. A rule that doesn't work unless interpreted by a reasonable DM should be written with that interpretation as the rule.

Just out of curiosity, what spells would you suggest that an Alchemist and Cartographer put into the SSI?

Battlesmith gets Conjure Barrage. Armorer and Reanimator get Lightning Bolt. Artilerist gets Fireball. Do you consider an upcast Cure Wounds spell to be better than those three spells some subclasses already get? Or are you just opposed to 10 rounds of 6d8 healing?

The Mark of Making feat gives you Conjure Barrage as an Artificer spell, so do you consider that to be a problematic option for the Artificer?

I am interested in this as well. - Although because a lot of my characters are AL, I think that selecting an upcast spell won't be an option, and neither will Dragonmarks in most cases.

In general, concentration spells aren't ideal for SSI because of its nature to repeatedly cast the same spell. However there is the option of using SSI with a concentration spell, and passing it around your party members or minions, with each using it on a subsequent turn. This will build in power as the fight progresses but might only be effective for large, long fights. I'll call that Cumulative casting and consider it separately. Many party members may have other things to do with their actions so it relies on having lots on minions.

From Base list: Aid might be better than Cure Wounds for healing in and out of combat.
Web with a better save than a Wand of Web?
Catapult spell if you've been mass-producing Acid flasks with the Alchemy jug?
Out of the adventuring day, you could use it to give all of the party a Homunculus Servant each.
Cumulative: Haste is an option, but a risky one. Heat Metal could be another option.

Alchemist: Acid Arrow isn't ideal since you won't get the bonus damage.
Either Aid, or Web, from the base list is probably best. Homunculus or other minion casting web, or Catapult with an oil flask, then you follow up with Firebolt could be the go-to.
Cumulative: Producing an additional Flaming Sphere every round could make a battlefield very hazardous to your opponents.

Cartographer: Bad.
Guiding Bolt might be your best option.
Cumulative: Call Lightning's 10-minute duration might allow you to set it up by precasting with a minion army before entering combat, where a spell with only a minute duration wouldn't be feasible.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

all sports and games require referees to make rulings. There is no such thing as an infallible set of rules that requires no judgment calls. And the rules do clearly state that making such calls is one of the DM’s roles. Adventures League is a perversion.

 

[Cap'n Kobold]

Adventures League is a perversion.

Maybe so, but that perversion seems to bring a lot of new players into the hobby.
It is also a useful perversion for those of us on shifting shifts, where many regular groups wouldn't accept someone who has to consistently miss sessions.
So I suppose I am someone who regularly engages in a perversion?

Would that make me a pervert in your eyes?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Maybe so, but that perversion seems to bring a lot of new players into the hobby.
It is also a useful perversion for those of us on shifting shifts, where many regular groups wouldn't accept someone who has to consistently miss sessions.
So I suppose I am someone who regularly engages in a perversion?

Would that make me a pervert in your eyes?

 

[GeminiDragon]

I really wish people wouldn't talk down to someone who disagrees with them. I've read the rules, and i just think you're wrong about RAW.

Spell Storing Item does not have 3rd level spell slots- not only does it has daily uses, but you can cast an equal number of second level spells as you can 3rd level spells. As such, it falls under Casting Without Slots, as per Chapter 7 of the PHB. As such, there's no way for "the spell expands to fill the slot it is put into." (PHB, ch7, "Using a Higher Level Spell Slot")

Therefore, we default to the spell level printed in the spell description for these slot-less spell casts.

It does not state at the base level. It says choose a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level spell... 3rd Level Cure Wounds is a 3rd Level Spell, that is it... text doesn't convey inflection, so it is actually hard to tell if someone is talking down, or if someone is simply being factual and people who are hypocrites are talking down by dismissing the valid points by calling it talking down.

When you create a Scroll or a Enspelled Item, you choose the level of the spell on it as well, you don't expend them, you just have to have them prepared. An Artificer with Cure Wounds has it Prepared at 3rd Level, even when they are out of 3rd Level Slots, because you don't choose the level when preparing it, you choose the level when casting it. The Spell Storing Device uses the Artificer's modifiers, not the wielder, so if the Artificer intended the spell they put in their Spell Storing Device to be the 3rd Level version, it is always 3rd level.

For the argument about it being always base level to be valid, it would need to state the spell is stored at its lowest level AND the number of uses would be based off the spells level, so a 1st level spell could be cast 30 times, as 2nd level spell could be cast 15 times, and a 3rd Level spell could be cast 10 times, but that is not the case. Some spells don't usually benefit from upcasting (Continual Flame is a great example, 2nd level spell with no specified upcast effect), and you might think there is no point (except, the Darkness Spell extinguishes/dispels Spells that create Light of 2nd level or lower, so a 3rd Level Continual Flame is worth casting to make a Continual Flame that won't be dispelled by the radius of a Darkness Spell). Note: It also makes it so the spell must be Action cast and not have a consumed component (so Speak with Animals is valid and so is Lightning Bolt, but Find Familiar, Identify, Counterspell, Continual Flame, Revivify, and Mass Healing Word all are not valid).

Since the Spell Storing Device doesn't explicitly forbid the higher level version of a spell being put it, nor explicitly state the spell is always cast at the lowest level, nor adjusts the number of castings. It is clear on what you can't put in it (Reaction Spells, Bonus Action Spells, 1 Minute Casting Time Spells, 1 Hour Casting Time Spells, Spells with consumed components... that is a huge amount of restrictions).

 

[Zardnaar]

It does not state at the base level. It says choose a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level spell... 3rd Level Cure Wounds is a 3rd Level Spell, that is it... text doesn't convey inflection, so it is actually hard to tell if someone is talking down, or if someone is simply being factual and people who are hypocrites are talking down by dismissing the valid points by calling it talking down.

When you create a Scroll or a Enspelled Item, you choose the level of the spell on it as well, you don't expend them, you just have to have them prepared. An Artificer with Cure Wounds has it Prepared at 3rd Level, even when they are out of 3rd Level Slots, because you don't choose the level when preparing it, you choose the level when casting it. The Spell Storing Device uses the Artificer's modifiers, not the wielder, so if the Artificer intended the spell they put in their Spell Storing Device to be the 3rd Level version, it is always 3rd level.

For the argument about it being always base level to be valid, it would need to state the spell is stored at its lowest level AND the number of uses would be based off the spells level, so a 1st level spell could be cast 30 times, as 2nd level spell could be cast 15 times, and a 3rd Level spell could be cast 10 times, but that is not the case. Some spells don't usually benefit from upcasting (Continual Flame is a great example, 2nd level spell with no specified upcast effect), and you might think there is no point (except, the Darkness Spell extinguishes/dispels Spells that create Light of 2nd level or lower, so a 3rd Level Continual Flame is worth casting to make a Continual Flame that won't be dispelled by the radius of a Darkness Spell). Note: It also makes it so the spell must be Action cast and not have a consumed component (so Speak with Animals is valid and so is Lightning Bolt, but Find Familiar, Identify, Counterspell, Continual Flame, Revivify, and Mass Healing Word all are not valid).

Since the Spell Storing Device doesn't explicitly forbid the higher level version of a spell being put it, nor explicitly state the spell is always cast at the lowest level, nor adjusts the number of castings. It is clear on what you can't put in it (Reaction Spells, Bonus Action Spells, 1 Minute Casting Time Spells, 1 Hour Casting Time Spells, Spells with consumed components... that is a huge amount of restrictions).

Its only when cast its a 3rd level spell. Putting it in the item isn't casting it.

 

[Mephista]

When you create a Scroll or a Enspelled Item, you choose the level of the spell on it as well,

No, no you do not.

Chapter 7 of the PHB, page 235, makes a clear, hard-line distinction between casting with spell slots, and casting without. There's three headers under the Spell Level section- Spell Slots, Casting without Slots, and Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot. Cantrips, rituals, special abilities, and magic items all are listed as non-spell-slot methods of casting spells - as SSI counts as both a special ability and a magic item, they do not have spell slots.

The rule for casting using a higher level is unique to Spell Slot and Using a Higher-Level Spell Slot sections. Both very specifically state that you must use spell slots for this. And, as established, magic items, such as scrolls or SSI, do not have spell slots.

While your way might be a common houserule, or assumed to be how the game works, it is not considered RAW.


EDIT - another rule, this time the DMG, chapter 7, page 220. "Some magic items allow the user to cast a spell from the item, the spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn't expend any of the user's spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise." (emphasis mine)

PHB, ch6, pg233, Scribing Spell Scrolls, does not reference using higher spell levels. Same with the Enspelled series of magic items, DMG p 258.