Artificer's Handbook - anyone got it?

die_kluge said:
Now, normally I wouldn't be try to pimping out my own stuff like this, but Nightfall shamelessly plugged his Player's Guide to Wizards, Bards, and Sorcerers, so I'm not above doing the same. :)

Of course, Nightfall's shameless pimping of the Scarred Lands is why his opinion on the subject has had zero value for the last two years...

The book has a completely revised magic item creation system, among other things. It's quite complex...

That, in a nutshell, is why I looked at this book and then put it down. Could be fun for crunchmongers, but not what I need in my game.
 

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BardStephenFox, it takes as much work as you are willing to put into it. There is no problem with adding any existing DMG item into a campaign that utilizes the rules from this book. The power of this book comes into play when you or your players make new magic items.

While Artificer's has a completely new set of feats to do that, the feats in the PHB are perfectly compatible. So, for those of you that think it makes no sense to have two different feats to create a ring of flying and boots of flying, then this book has what you want. Otherwise, the existing item creation feats work as advertised in the PHB. No change there.

The biggest change comes in how you calculate the cost of the magic item being created. No more guesswork (well, items like Crothian's aside!). It's also designed to give characters with higher intelligence/charisma/wisdom more item creation power. So, a wizard with a 24 intelligence can create more items than the same level wizard with a 16 intelligence. It doesn't work like that in the core rules.

Or, use the core rules exactly as written, and use our rules to calculate the costs, ignoring the spell slot requirements. Or, just take advantage of the variant rules like gestalt sets (a set of items that create new effects for each piece in the set), or socketed items. It also has instability rules, new item effects, a list of magic item components to add some realism to magic item creation, a random magic item history generator, and even a table for determining potion flavors. All of that works with the existing system.

Now, for your items:

Dreamstone
1 use-per month, "command-word" activated (this allows non-spellcasters to use it).
4 slots for use-per command-word activated, +2 for 1 use per month. 6 spell slots total.
Spell level 5, caster level 9 (no benefits gained from a higher caster level). Plug in our formula:
10gp(5 + 9 - 1) * 6^2 = 10gp(13)*36 = 4,680; market cost = 9,360gp.


Second item is a lot more complex. I'm not going to work up the base item "+3 longsword". That's a standard +3 bonus item, and has a cost of 11,000gp (weapons are 2x the regular cost because of having a bonus to to-hit and to damage).

To this we add 3 effects:
resist energy - fire, cold, and lightning. Now, the 3.5 version of this spell is 10 points and lasts 10 minutes. This item would actually be much cheaper with the 3.0 rules, because 3.0 has "endure elements" which is probably what this spell was based on. Endure elements in 3.0 has a duration of 24 hours, which makes making that spell permanent fairly cheap. It's cheaper to make a long duration spell permanent than it is to make one that is "instantaneous" permanent. For simplicity's sake, let's use the 3.0 rules for this item:
Endure elements fire, cold, lightning.

This is a continuous property, and will require the continuous item rules. Adding an extra effect to an item incurs a +1 cumulative spell slot cost to the item. The cost for a 1 day duration "continuous" item is 9 spell slots. So, these would +10, +11, and +12 spell slots since the swords +3 bonus is the first effect. Those are spell level 1, caster level 1.
10gp(1 + 1 - 1) *10^2 = 1,000gp
10gp(1 + 1 - 1) * 11^2 = 1,210gp
10gp(1 + 1 - 1) * 12^2 = 1,440gp

The last effect is a use-per "true reincarnation". Now, I'm going to take this that you mean "true resurrection" as the former doesn't exist. I'm not sure why "true resurrection" is needed here, as the body still exists, so "resurrection would suffice". But, hey, it's your item. :)

First, we add a +4 for the fourth effect.
Use-activated, 1 use-per year is 6 spell slots. (5 for use-activated, +1 for 1 use-per year). 6 +4 = 10 spell slots
Spell level is 9, caster level is 17 (feel free to substitute a different spell level and/or caster level if I'm mistaken on which spell you intend here).
10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 10^2 = 250gp * 100 = 25,000gp.

This item suffers the same problem that Crothian's did. It requires 10 9th level spell slots for this last effect. There are two ways around this. As a fluke, if we calculate this effect *before* the endure elements effects, we can cost it with a +1 (instead of a +4) if we make this the second effect in the item, versus the fourth. It becomes cheaper, and more do-able. The second would be to create the item and be done with it, and then *add* the resurrection as an extra effect later, but let's just swap the ordering of the effects.
10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 7^2 = 12,250gp (half as much, in this case). The endure elements become slightly more expensive as a result.

10gp(1 + 1 - 1) * 11^2 = 1,210gp
10gp(1 + 1 - 1) * 12^2 = 1,440gp
10gp(1 + 1 - 1) * 13^2 = 1,690gp

Now, you mention a drawback - the creature has to have a head. We'll assign that a -1 to the cost because of that limitation. There's a section on limitations that can be imposed on items to decrease the cost. That leaves us with 6 spell slots for that effect.
10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 6^2 = 9,000gp.

Total cost 11,000gp + 1,210gp + 1,440gp + 1,690gp + 9,000gp = 24,340gp (creation cost); 48,680 market cost.
 

Baseballfury, the system is complex because it has to be. That doesn't mean that it's hard to understand, however. When you get into rules that allow items to have feats in them, to have items cast effects a certain number of times per year, to increase the caster level of an item, etc, etc, etc., you get into a lot of rules with that kind of stuff.

I would wager that 90% of all the items any player is ever going to dream up takes about 2 minutes to work up with these rules. Going into it, it seems daunting. But, let's take BardStephenFox's "DreamStone" for example.

All I needed to know was that the "Dream" spell was 5th level and that the stone could cast it once per month.

I looked at one table, got the number of spell slots I needed for the cost formula, and slapped it together. It took me maybe a minute to cost that item out. No guesswork involved. I didn't have to find similar items in the DMG, I didn't have to fudge it for any reason. And as you can see, the cost is specific - 4,680gp.

But that's just one benefit, the other comes when they DO want to make the really bizarre items. This book gives you the tools to cost them out very specifically, so that there aren't any questions about whether it's too low, or too high. It takes all the guesswork out of the equation.
 

    Incidentally, the item Crothian wants *is* in the DMG. The Rod of Metamagic: Quicken. From the SRD:
Metamagic, Quicken: The wielder can cast up to three spells per day that are quickened as though using the Quicken Spell feat.
Strong (no school); CL 17th; Craft Rod, Quicken Spell; Price 35,000 gp (lesser), 75,500 gp (normal), 170,000 gp (greater).

Lesser and Greater Metamagic Rods: Normal metamagic rods can be used with spells of 6th level or lower. Lesser rods can be used with spells of 3rd level or lower, while greater rods can be used with spells of 9th level or lower.
    I do find it interesting how reasonably close to the DMG costs you came, die_kluge.

Jason
 

jaults said:
Incidentally, the item Crothian wants *is* in the DMG. The Rod of Metamagic: Quicken. From the SRD

[...]

I do find it interesting how reasonably close to the DMG costs you came, die_kluge.

Am I good, or what? I've never even heard of such an item. How interesting. That item doesn't mention keeping the spell level the same, though. Well, it's not clear in any case.

And not only did I come close, you know *how* I arrived at my number. With the DMG system, it's anyone's guess!
 


And not only did I come close, you know *how* I arrived at my number. With the DMG system, it's anyone's guess!

Actually, I thought they showed one of those as an example somewhere (tome & blood?) Is my memory failing me?
 

Hmm, it looks like I might need to take a closer look at the book. I clearly missed a lot in my quick perusal on vacation. Too bad my LGS is less than robust in terms of inventory and service. :rolleyes:

One of the big areas that annoys me about the core item creation rules is the apparent inability to create an item that works less than 1/day.

The 1/month affect of the Dreamstone is more for flavor. It is an item that one of my characters will give another character as gift. It will be made from moonstone. It will have little impact on the game since it is usable so rarely. It is more because the Druid may end up as a guardian in a very secluded area by the time the campaign winds down. With the Dreamstone, she could still contact some of the other characters in "retirement". But, there is no way to positively build such an item in the core rules. You guess at the cost.

The sword is an artifact-type weapon granted to a character in the game that I run. It was a gift from a nature God. True Reincarnate is from Master's of the Wild, but it stats as the Druid equivelant of True Ressurection. :) The special limitation reflects the trickster/practical joker aspect of this particular god. The 1/year use limits the number of times this will be used in a campaign, and is indicative of the nature of a sword (to kill, not to heal). While I can easily arbitrate DM's perogative, I prefer to be able to back it up in game terms and to get a feel for how valuable a gift like that is worth.

Both of these are examples of a mechanic that is just missing from the rules. 1/day is handled, but not anything beyond that. (Yes, some of you will think this is just silly. "Make it charged" you say. Sure, that works for most things. But, charges can be used multiple times over a very short period of time. Charges have the wrong flavor for these items. YMMV) I may look at the pricing for the Dreamstone and think it is a bit high priced, since the spell isn't applicable in all but the most secure circumstances, but at least I can start with a base price and decide a suitable discount if I disagree. :)

Out of curiosity, how would the Orb of Storms (From the SRD - either 3.0 or 3.5) stat out? This has been the closest thing I have found to an item with an extended, recurring "charge". I have tried to reverse engineer it to see if somebody just made a guess, or if there was a formula that was never published in there. My conclusion is that it was a guess.
 


SRD:
Orb of Storms: This glass sphere is 8 inches in diameter. The possessor can call forth all manner of weather, even supernaturally destructive storms. Once per day she can call upon the orb to use a control weather spell, Once per month, she can conjure a storm of vengeance. The possessor of the orb is continually protected by an endure elements effect.
Strong varied; CL 18th; Craft Wondrous Item, control weather, endure elements, storm of vengeance; Price 48,000 gp;Weight 6 lb.

control weather 1/day
storm of vengeance 1/month
continuous - endure elements

- easy -

control weather - 7th level spell, caster level 13
use-per command-word activated spell slots 4 +4 1/day = 8
10gp(7 + 13 - 1) * 8^2 = 190gp*64 =12,160gp

storm of vengeance - 9th level spell, caster level 17
use-per command-word activated spell slots 4 +2 1/month + 1 second effect in item = 7 slots
10gp(9 + 17 - 1) * 7^2 = 250gp*49 = 12,250gp

endure elements = 1st level spell, duration 24 hours, caster level 1
continuous item, 1 day duration spell = 7 spell slots + 2 for 2nd additional effect = 8 spell slots
10gp(1 + 1 - 1) * 8^2 = 10*640 = 6,400gp

total = 12,160 + 12,250 + 6,400 = 30,810gp

This item would require eight 7th level spell slots, 7 9th level spell slots, and 8 1st level spell slots. So, although the cost is not significant, the spell slot requirements are nearly impossible to meet. The cost (and the spell slot requirements) would be less for a spell-trigger item, but only clerics or druids would be able to use it then.

DMG cost = 48,000gp. Way too high in my opinion, and my cost reflects that belief.
 

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