D&D 5E As a Player, why do you play in games you haven't bought into?

[doctorbadwolf]

But as you note, that doesn't mean they're willing to, for any number of reasons.

Is there a reason we are continuing this semantic exchange?

 

[Thomas Shey]

Is there a reason we are continuing this semantic exchange?

I don't see anything at all semantic about noting there's quite a difference between people who have the necessary skills to GM, and whether they're willing to do so at a particular place and time. If you do, well, no one is forcing you to respond.

 

[Thomas Shey]

True, and as a DM I often end up "back seat ruling" sometimes when a player. Like, if a player has a question about how an ability works, well, I know, so I answer.

Mostly it is habit, but I also try and help make sure the DM isn't doing everything.

That certainly works in the "human rulebook" part but not the "deciding unusual situations or setting DCs" part.

 

[Thomas Shey]

When - and I'm not holding my breath - they invent a machine that can do all the mechanical judging I'd be happy to sit back and just operate the setting and NPCs.

Problem is, a lot of the mechanical judging often relies on (specific elements of) the setting, some of which may or may not yet have been revealed to the players/characters; which means having it all in one person still, alas, makes the most sense.

I'm not assuming the mechanical judge is a player; I'm assuming he's, effectively, a co-GM, and therefor can know all the setting elements the NPC operator does.

 

[Chaosmancer]

That certainly works in the "human rulebook" part but not the "deciding unusual situations or setting DCs" part.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I'm the most experienced DM sometimes, so they will look to me for a "how the heck do I rule this" and I offer advice.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Sometimes yes, sometimes no.

I'm the most experienced DM sometimes, so they will look to me for a "how the heck do I rule this" and I offer advice.

Fair enough. Even a lot of new GMs I've often seen get proprietary about such things, and there's Lanefan's comment above that has some relevance.

 

[Hussar]

I ADORE my rules guru players. I had one in 3e that knew the 3e rules like the back of her hand and, after a short while, I began defaulting to her rules interpretations since they were almost always better than my own.

 

[Umbran]

So, sorry your prima donna PC is just one member of a group and the campaign world doesn't revolve around the PC group. Kind of like how in real life we don't always get what we want.

Or, you know, maybe the Mary Sue thing isn't as dominant as you may fear.

 

[Hussar]

@Raunalyn did ask a very pertinent question though. What difference did it make that the players came to the session 0 with completely made characters? Well, here's what my expectations were and here's what I wound up with:

Expectation:

The character generation game that I was going to use would ensure that the PC's had ties to each other. But, just as importantly, they would have ties to events, NPC's and plots within Saltmarsh. Every PC would know at least one and probably several important NPCs, would know the political situation in Saltmarsh, and be embedded in the setting right from the outset.

What I got:

I got a 1/2 orc bard who wanted to sell self help books, a firbolg druid runaway slave who was exiled from her people, a paladin soldier whose player refused the offer of a free house in Saltmarsh as part of the background, an illusionist charlatan and a human ranger smuggler.

So, instead of hitting the ground running with things already settled, I had to spend the first two or three sessions trying to get as much information as I could from into the hands of the players so that they could make informed decisions about what they wanted to do, all the while trying to accommodate backgrounds that had virtually nothing to do with the campaign, and drop enough hooks to get them going on the introductory adventure - Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh. I had to introduce locations, NPC's, politics and everything else, all in three hour sessions while still making the session interesting enough for everyone involved.

Oh, and did I mention no one actually read any of the setting background material that I presented?

So, yeah, it was a major problem for me when everyone ignored what I said and showed up with fully made characters.

 

[Don Durito]

@Raunalyn did ask a very pertinent question though. What difference did it make that the players came to the session 0 with completely made characters? Well, here's what my expectations were and here's what I wound up with:

Expectation:

The character generation game that I was going to use would ensure that the PC's had ties to each other. But, just as importantly, they would have ties to events, NPC's and plots within Saltmarsh. Every PC would know at least one and probably several important NPCs, would know the political situation in Saltmarsh, and be embedded in the setting right from the outset.

What I got:

I got a 1/2 orc bard who wanted to sell self help books, a firbolg druid runaway slave who was exiled from her people, a paladin soldier whose player refused the offer of a free house in Saltmarsh as part of the background, an illusionist charlatan and a human ranger smuggler.

So, instead of hitting the ground running with things already settled, I had to spend the first two or three sessions trying to get as much information as I could from into the hands of the players so that they could make informed decisions about what they wanted to do, all the while trying to accommodate backgrounds that had virtually nothing to do with the campaign, and drop enough hooks to get them going on the introductory adventure - Sinister Secret of Saltmarsh. I had to introduce locations, NPC's, politics and everything else, all in three hour sessions while still making the session interesting enough for everyone involved.

Oh, and did I mention no one actually read any of the setting background material that I presented?

So, yeah, it was a major problem for me when everyone ignored what I said and showed up with fully made characters.

Yeah this sort of thing is a pain. It's interesting that there's so many people exhorting the GM should work with the players. Well, the GM does most of the work. The players have a responsbility to work with the GM.