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D&D 5E ASCENSION, The Codex of Exalted, Book 1: Players Guide

Stalker0

Legend
I did my first general read through. I like the action economy; it’s a strong statement that an ascended character is just flat out badass. It reminds me of the last clash of the titans movie where the gods came down and were moving so quick the mortals were standing still. It pairs well with your “normalizing rules”, to keep combat simple even if flavor wise the battle could be over in seconds considering how fast everything is moving.

I was not a fan of getting an extra d20 per rank. That gets clunky at 3 rolls and especially 4, and it’s hard to work with disadvantage especially. Lastly more dice start to have less and less benefit.

I would rather just something like “gain a bonus to all d20 rolls equal to your divine rank”, if there was any place where we could break 5e bounded accuracy I think it’s the deities.

exalted proficiency could use a cleanup. So I have expertise…but not proficiency. I have a bonus…but I use my talent score. So is it my talent score plus expertise? It’s just not clear here
 

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Rogerd1

Explorer
Okay so this needs saying, the Immortal Ascension books for 3e, were baaaaaaad. Like terribad, please do not emulate them.

Secondly, there is already a 5e attempt at Mystara Immortals for 5e, that is not very good either. Take the good parts, but discard the rest.

Now the thing is that using Spheres, essentially Mage, but have also been imported from PF1e into 5e in Spheres of Power. So it is possible for mortals to now wield spheres too.
 

The Glen

Hero
Problem with the Immortals boxed set was it was pretty much an entirely different game. Too many new concepts and all the mechanics had few connections with the BECM part of the rules.
 

dave2008

Legend
I did my first general read through. I like the action economy; it’s a strong statement that an ascended character is just flat out badass. It reminds me of the last clash of the titans movie where the gods came down and were moving so quick the mortals were standing still. It pairs well with your “normalizing rules”, to keep combat simple even if flavor wise the battle could be over in seconds considering how fast everything is moving.
Thanks! I always appreciate your comments.
I was not a fan of getting an extra d20 per rank. That gets clunky at 3 rolls and especially 4, and it’s hard to work with disadvantage especially. Lastly more dice start to have less and less benefit.
I may offer an optional rule to do just that. However, I liked the idea that as exalted get higher ranks, luck becomes less and less part of the equation. Also, I don't recall if this is in the current post, but this can be normalize as well. So if all the foes are of the same rank, you don't apply exalted advantage.
exalted proficiency could use a cleanup. So I have expertise…but not proficiency. I have a bonus…but I use my talent score. So is it my talent score plus expertise? It’s just not clear here
Hmmm. I may have to look through this again before I move into the next sections. Exalted proficiency was supposed to be completely changed, or perhaps I need to clarify my intent. Basically exalted just use their full talent score when they make checks. No proficiency or expertise really. Though I do remember I had something about adding your exalted rank as a type of expertise. I need to get back into my notes!
 

dave2008

Legend
Okay so this needs saying, the Immortal Ascension books for 3e, were baaaaaaad. Like terribad, please do not emulate them.
I disagree. I think there was a lot of interesting things in there. Much more interesting than the official epic level handbook / deities and demigods for 3e. However, there was also a lot of craziness that I don't wish to replicate.
Secondly, there is already a 5e attempt at Mystara Immortals for 5e, that is not very good either.
yes, I have that too.
Take the good parts, but discard the rest.
That is my approach to pretty much everything I do.
Now the thing is that using Spheres, essentially Mage, but have also been imported from PF1e into 5e in Spheres of Power. So it is possible for mortals to now wield spheres too.
I have the 5e spheres of books (the name for the martial one escapes me), but I am not sure what your trying to say. The "spheres" concept from BECMI is not the same as the "Spheres of Power" for PF or 5e. Also, I don't use the term "Spheres" here. I have replaced / revised the idea and I call them "Authorities." And mortals definitely cannot use Authority (in fact most exalted can't either).
 

Rogerd1

Explorer
I disagree. I think there was a lot of interesting things in there. Much more interesting than the official epic level handbook / deities and demigods for 3e. However, there was also a lot of craziness that I don't wish to replicate.

yes, I have that too.

That is my approach to pretty much everything I do.

I have the 5e spheres of books (the name for the martial one escapes me), but I am not sure what your trying to say. The "spheres" concept from BECMI is not the same as the "Spheres of Power" for PF or 5e. Also, I don't use the term "Spheres" here. I have replaced / revised the idea and I call them "Authorities." And mortals definitely cannot use Authority (in fact most exalted can't either).
And even in taking the good parts, you need to be very, very careful that you don't let the power level creep in, as there comes a point where no edition of DnD can cater to those power levels. At that point you require Champions, or better yet M&M 2e / 3e. As those are the games required to run that level of game, they just are.


Whether you call them Authorities, or Spheres, it is just a naming convention for what are essentially the same things.

The thing is, we have 3e Deities books for guidelines into gods (it was overpowered and worked better with M&M). My advise would be move away from gods - and think more Stargate Ascension, or the rpg Eternity (it's free) where you play incorporeal godlike beings that can essentially create their own realms, servants etc.

They might even have their own realm, which is more akin to a mathematical construct where they can observe all of reality without bodies.

Then you can concentrate on how they actually get to that stage. Is more akin to Mage the Ascension, or Mage the Awakening? Or something else entirely?

Forget what has gone before. Forge your own path.

Where did you find that awesome picture by the way?
 
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Rogerd1

Explorer
Okay so let's look at this another way.
DnD 4e had some great things in it, one of which were Paragon paths. So perhaps there are a variety of paths available - PF1e had a lot of mythic paths.

So let's say that being a godling, or Empyrean, like in the Monster Manual - and Arkadia, is another route.

Ascension, could be another path, as you go the initial route of being partially ascended, just like in Stargate; until you become fully incorporeal, and then ascended. You could also incorporate stuff from Mage too.
 

dave2008

Legend
And even in taking the good parts, you need to be very, very careful that you don't let the power level creep in, as there comes a point where no edition of DnD can cater to those power levels. At that point you require Champions, or better yet M&M 2e / 3e. As those are the games required to run that level of game, they just are.
I'm really stretching the idea that this is "5e" the further along I go. It is really something I am not worried about. There will definitely be power level creep, that is kinda the point.

Whether you call them Authorities, or Spheres, it is just a naming convention for what are essentially the same things.
I disagree with you their. The "Spheres" in BECMI really have nothing in common with "Spheres of Power." Perhaps you didn't play the "I" in BECMI, but the "Spheres" had very little mechanical footprint (and even less so with the later revisions). I have renamed them Authorities because I am taking the original concept and expanding / changing it a bit. I think there will be some similarities with both the original "Spheres" and "Spheres of Power," but there are significant differences too. The current concept of Authority is both a path and a power, but I am still working on the details. However, it is something like:
  • Like a class that you progress through and get certain authority features as you level up.
  • It is an "easy" button. You can use your authority to do basically anything within your range. But you can only do this a set number of times - ever. If a player uses its authority, the DM should simple say: OK, that is what happens (with some boundaries with respect to other exalted and your Authority). The player basically takes "authority" from the DM when they do this ;)
  • Using authority, similar to power combat in BECMI, happens outside of the initiative order and is always adjudicated first
The thing is, we have 3e Deities books for guidelines into gods (it was overpowered and worked better with M&M). My advise would be move away from gods - and think more Stargate Ascension, or the rpg Eternity (it's free) where you play incorporeal godlike beings that can essentially create their own realms, servants etc.
What a god is or isn't is not strictly defined IRL. They can be anything from the omnipotent Christian "God" to the intelligent spirit beast from Princess Mononoke. So there is no need to move away from "gods," it is just how do you want to define them. For Ascension, they are somewhere in between. Starting out as something similar to power spirit beasts and ending up something closer to omnipotence.
Forget what has gone before. Forge your own path.
In reality that is what I am doing. I am pretty sure the "5e" tag I originally put on this thread will not be accurate when it is all done.
Where did you find that awesome picture by the way?
Which picture? I originally started this project as a Kickstarter and commissioned a good bit of art. So some of the art in this thread unique that I commissioned or created myself.
 

dave2008

Legend
Okay so let's look at this another way.
DnD 4e had some great things in it, one of which were Paragon paths. So perhaps there are a variety of paths available - PF1e had a lot of mythic paths.

So let's say that being a godling, or Empyrean, like in the Monster Manual - and Arkadia, is another route.

Ascension, could be another path, as you go the initial route of being partially ascended, just like in Stargate; until you become fully incorporeal, and then ascended. You could also incorporate stuff from Mage too.
There are two types of gods in Ascension: original gods and mortal creatures who achieve apotheosis. Players are of the later type by default. Regardless of the method, gods of all ranks have access to mortal, incorporeal, and true forms. The game primarily deals with true forms as they are the most powerful and functional.

PS - thank you for the conversation and your ideas about deities and exalted. I enjoy it!
 

dave2008

Legend
Problem with the Immortals boxed set was it was pretty much an entirely different game. Too many new concepts and all the mechanics had few connections with the BECM part of the rules.
Yes and no. Personally, that is what I want in immortal level play. It should, IMO, have fundamental differences to how it is played. It should not feel like the same game to me. That is what drew me to the Immortals set more than anything.

For Ascension I have worried about how much I should hold over from 5e and gone back and forth on mechanics. Recently I decided not to worry about how much it looks like or plays like 5e and just make the game I want.
 

Rogerd1

Explorer
There are two types of gods in Ascension: original gods and mortal creatures who achieve apotheosis. Players are of the later type by default. Regardless of the method, gods of all ranks have access to mortal, incorporeal, and true forms. The game primarily deals with true forms as they are the most powerful and functional.

PS - thank you for the conversation and your ideas about deities and exalted. I enjoy it!
So let's look at reality warping in DnD. That pretty much requires Wish (lesser or Greater).

Environment Control is what it is called in M&M, 1 point per rank. First gets you 30 feet cubed, and goes up using the main matrix in the beginning of the book.

Now Remote Sensing, 1 point per level / sense. So using two senses would be 2 points. And a flat 1 point let's you reach across one dimension. 2 = group of related dimensions, and 3 for all of them.

This is why DnD, is not really suited to the power level you're doing here. No offense intended, it is just not geared for it. In fact, M&M 2e, uses all the usal DnD / PF stats.

For Ascension I have worried about how much I should hold over from 5e and gone back and forth on mechanics. Recently I decided not to worry about how much it looks like or plays like 5e and just make the game I want.
In fact M&M 2e actually converts a good chunk of monsters, and a god to its system. And to be honest M&M would be the best pick for what you are doing here. Trust me on this.

Which picture? I originally started this project as a Kickstarter and commissioned a good bit of art. So some of the art in this thread unique that I commissioned or created myself.
I meant the one in your OP. for some reason I really like it. It is understated, but shows power. So just curious where you got it from.
 


dave2008

Legend
So let's look at reality warping in DnD. That pretty much requires Wish (lesser or Greater).
PS - gods warp reality with their authority in this game, not spells (aka Wish).
Environment Control is what it is called in M&M, 1 point per rank. First gets you 30 feet cubed, and goes up using the main matrix in the beginning of the book.

Now Remote Sensing, 1 point per level / sense. So using two senses would be 2 points. And a flat 1 point let's you reach across one dimension. 2 = group of related dimensions, and 3 for all of them.

This is why DnD, is not really suited to the power level you're doing here. No offense intended, it is just not geared for it. In fact, M&M 2e, uses all the usal DnD / PF stats.
I'm sorry, I do not understand your argument so I cannot really retort. I am not sure what you are talking about / where you are going with regard to environment control / remote sensing and points. That is not what I am doing with Ascension. Why bring this up?

Furthermore, what does that have to do with a certain power level and D&D?

I get that you don't seem to think D&D scales up to some undefined level of power. And that may be true, but what I am doing is quite a bit different from standard D&D, so I don't really see that as an issue (or at least an issue for people who want to play this type of game).
In fact M&M 2e actually converts a good chunk of monsters, and a god to its system. And to be honest M&M would be the best pick for what you are doing here. Trust me on this.
What does M&M stand for? Mutants and Masterminds? I will look at it, but I already know basically what I am doing. Just a few details to iron out and a lot more to post. I am happy with what I have planned so far.
I meant the one in your OP. for some reason I really like it. It is understated, but shows power. So just curious where you got it from.
I commissioned it from an artist I found on UA reddit. It is a homage to the original Immortal box cover art:
1635880142532.png
 


Rogerd1

Explorer
PS - gods warp reality with their authority in this game, not spells (aka Wish).

I'm sorry, I do not understand your argument so I cannot really retort. I am not sure what you are talking about / where you are going with regard to environment control / remote sensing and points. That is not what I am doing with Ascension. Why bring this up?

Furthermore, what does that have to do with a certain power level and D&D?

I get that you don't seem to think D&D scales up to some undefined level of power. And that may be true, but what I am doing is quite a bit different from standard D&D, so I don't really see that as an issue (or at least an issue for people who want to play this type of game).

What does M&M stand for? Mutants and Masterminds? I will look at it, but I already know basically what I am doing. Just a few details to iron out and a lot more to post. I am happy with what I have planned so far.

My point is that Mutants and Masterminds captures the right power level, DnD, just cannot and will break far more readily as a system. And Environmental Control is how easily M&M showcases reality warping, or sensing across dimensions. Something DnD cannot readily emulate.

So you have some hard work trying to keep it within what is essentially 5e framework, without breaking the entire system, or having to rebuild it from the ground up.

Keep going I will be watching to see where you take this.
 

dave2008

Legend
My point is that Mutants and Masterminds captures the right power level, DnD, just cannot and will break far more readily as a system. And Environmental Control is how easily M&M showcases reality warping, or sensing across dimensions. Something DnD cannot readily emulate.
OK, but I don't feel you have explained the how and why you think D&D doesn't scale. However, that is really irrelevant to me as....
So you have some hard work trying to keep it within what is essentially 5e framework, without breaking the entire system, or having to rebuild it from the ground up.
...I am not limiting myself to the 5e framework.
Keep going I will be watching to see where you take this.
Thank you - I look forward to future comments!
 

U_nderscor_e

Villager
Hi! I just wanted to pop in to say, this thing is awesome and I can't wait for it to be complete! I'm currently planning a homebrew campaign that will take my players to godhood, so when I found this, I was so excited. Keep up the great work!
 

dave2008

Legend
Hi! I just wanted to pop in to say, this thing is awesome and I can't wait for it to be complete! I'm currently planning a homebrew campaign that will take my players to godhood, so when I found this, I was so excited. Keep up the great work!
Thanks! I hope to get some good progress made over the end-of-year holidays.
 



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