D&D General Asian D&D

[Dustin Cooper]

Seems like an EXTREMELY awkward system for that sort of thing. I mean, TBH I find BRP almost unusable for Cthulhu either, it is horribly dated. There are vastly better-suited systems for that, though I suppose they may be entirely unknown in Japan at this point. From the sound of it Japanese RPGs have made some innovations and have explored some systems similar to 4e skill challenges or the clocks used in FitD games, but maybe they haven't quite really embraced narrative play?

Honestly, this doesn't sound too different than all the Western gamers who try shoving whatever they want to play into D&D's ruleset even when it doesn't really fit. People are often hesitant to learn a new system when they already know one, and when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Japan just has a different hammer.

 

[Voadam]

Quick, everyone, without googling, name 6 Kara-Tur deities!

I did want to come back to this. Its a trick question!

Here is the sum total of the 1e Oriental Adventures discussion of gods:

1e OA page 140:

Religion
The average man of Kara-Tur does not attend a church or temple on a regular basis, indeed the concept of a church as a separate entity clearly identified from all others is somewhat strange to him. For him, religion organized on such a scale does not exist. However, this does not mean the average man is not pious and respectful of religion, nor that the temples and monasteries are in total anarchy. It is just that the attitude toward religion is vastly different.
There are several different religions in Kara-Tur, each with its own set of beliefs and practices—The Way, The Path of Enlightenment, The Eight Million Gods, ancestor worship, the cult of the state, and more. Each is distinct, teaching enlightenment, perfection, and salvation according to its own methods. Each believes it is the correct path. However, in practice, few common people follow the beliefs of strictly one religion. Instead, they take no chances, not wishing to offend one deity or another. As a result, commoners make offerings, listen to sermons, celebrate holy days, and pray at temples of many different religions. Nor is this considered unusual or incorrect.
The various religions, when compared to those of the west, are extremely tolerant of one another. Several religions will be practiced in the same area, their temples often side by side. It is not unknown for a sect to adopt some of the practices or outward forms of another religion. These adoptions are re-explained according to the beliefs of the religion. Thus minor gods may be adopted and identified as different forms of a deity already worshiped by the religion. The clergy are faithful to their particular religion, not practicing any other. Although they would like the peasants to follow only their teachings and strive for this, they know that the common folk follow many different beliefs at once.
In addition, religions are often divided into sects. The various sects of a religion all have the same overall goal and beliefs, but disagree as to what is the best method to pursue these beliefs. Some may hold to chanting a phrase over and over again, another thinking a different phrase is required, and a third foregoing chanting for breathing and physical exercises. Each believes its methods are the correct way. Often fierce rivalries develop between different sects, leading to feuds and violent clashes. Indeed, sects of the same religion are often more hostile to each other than they are to entirely different religions!

So not one named deity. Are the Eight Million Gods the Japanese pantheon from the 1e Deities and Demigods with Raiden? The Chinese pantheon with Kuan Yin and the Eater of the Gods? Unspecified.

I could name one definite though, MAD MONKEY!

Also I had read that one of the later Kara Tur developed areas, one of the South Asian fantasy areas worships the Vedic/Indian Gods from Deities and Demigods/Legends and Lore so you get the ones everybody knows like Shiva, Kali, Vishnu, Rudra, etc. which became canonical FR gods.

 

[Tonguez]

The author of that adventure was asked to remove a mention Kara-Tur.

Frankly, the best thing to do with Kara-Tur is to treat it like the FR equivalent of Cathay - an offensive name that was formally used by ignorant foreigners. Drop in the Radiant Citadel settings in it's place.

Wait? When did Cathay become offensive? It derives from the Uyghur name for Northern China Xitay and travelled via Muslim traders to the Kazakhs as Qitay, Russia as Khitay and Dutch as Cathay.

The confusion was that many in Europe belived Cathay and China to be different countries, but I’d not heard it relegated to a name used in derision.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

I have seen the DM Guild and there is content about Kara-Tur created by 3PPs.

If WotC doesn't publish new sourcebooks about Kara-Tur is because they are more focused into other titles. It not a "never" but a "not yet, you will have to await more".

The marketing strategy would advice first a D&D isekai, and later a D&D jianghu. A different thing would be if a Korean company gave the first step and they talked with Hasbro for a parnership or licence agreement to promote their own IPs in the Western market.

I dare to say really there is not a complete taboo about create content inspired in no-Western cultures, but they want to take care to do it in the right way. Hasbro wants D&D to be sold in the no-Western markets. It is not self-censorship, but they want to make sure there was good vibes among everybody.

Even if WotC had got an initial plan, but after Hasbro agrees a partnership with an Asian company, and this starts to launch a lot of suggestions, then their initial plan has to be rewritten totally and start from zero again.

I guess Hasbro has got more contacts and more experience with the Japanese market. The Chinese market is interesting, but it is practically a Russian roulette, if the wrong person dislike you, then you could wind up like the character played by Richard Gere in "the Red Corner".

Other point is WotC's marketing strategy would rather all the titles as generic as possible, and even they will try to avoid names linked with other languange. They aren't going to say "maho shojo" but "magical maid", nor "shen" but "spirit folk".

 

[Demetrios1453]

Wait? When did Cathay become offensive? It derives from the Uyghur name for Northern China Xitay and travelled via Muslim traders to the Kazakhs as Qitay, Russia as Khitay and Dutch as Cathay.

The confusion was that many in Europe belived Cathay and China to be different countries, but I’d not heard it relegated to a name used in derision.

Because the Khitan ethnicity from which the name derives weren't Chinese, but related to the Mongolians. The Khitans conquered northern China as the Liao Dynasty in the 10th century, but were eventually driven west by the Jurchen (a Manchurian ethnicity who founded the Jin Dynasty of northern China) and eventually ended up in Central Asia in the early 12th century. They still called themselves the (Western) Liao, but their Turkish neighbors called them the Qara-Khitai, from which, after working its way west and going from language to language, "Cathay" came from. Basically, the Chinese are not terribly fond of an exonym that is derived from a non-Chinese group that subjugated a good many of them.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

The general point, of course, is that everyone is offended by being miss-labelled.

And even in this internet age, far more offence is caused by ignorance than by malice.

 

[Blue Orange]

Because the Khitan ethnicity from which the name derives weren't Chinese, but related to the Mongolians. The Khitans conquered northern China as the Liao Dynasty in the 10th century, but were eventually driven west by the Jurchen (a Manchurian ethnicity who founded the Jin Dynasty of northern China) and eventually ended up in Central Asia in the early 12th century. They still called themselves the (Western) Liao, but their Turkish neighbors called them the Qara-Khitai, from which, after working its way west and going from language to language, "Cathay" came from. Basically, the Chinese are not terribly fond of an exonym that is derived from a non-Chinese group that subjugated a good many of them.

Makes sense.

In the Renaissance epics Orlando Innamorato and Orlando Furioso, Cathay is a city in India.

People in premodern times didn't know geography all that well.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

People in premodern times didn't know geography all that well.

I'm not sure modern people are much better.

That's what has always bothered me about old style D&D setting books: they contain loads of information that in-setting characters simply should not know. Now, you could say they are "DM only", but it doesn't make economic sense to market them that way. I prefer the more modern approach (pioneered by Eberron) with built in vagueness.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

Source: Wikipedia

Korpokkur (Ainu: コㇿポックㇽ; Japanese: コロポックル, romanized: Koropokkuru),[1] also written Koro-pok-kuru,[2] korobokkuru, korbokkur, or koropokkur,[3] koro-pok-guru, are a race of small people in folklore of the Ainu people of the northern Japanese islands. The name is traditionally analysed as a tripartite compound of kor ("butterbur plant"), pok ("under, below"), and kur ("person") and interpreted to mean "people below the leaves of the Fuki" in the Ainu language.

The Ainu believe that the korpokkur were the people who lived in the Ainu's land before the Ainu themselves lived there. They were short of stature, agile, and skilled at fishing. They lived in pits with roofs made from butterbur leaves.

The first step should to design crunch: PC species and subclasses. Here WotC takes care. Maybe some few small adjustments about the lore of the korobukuru were necessary.

WotC is not interested into a gazetter of other continents when the geography can be found free in the fandom wiki. The sourcebooks about lore have to tell new things. It can't be a simple rehash.

Maybe WotC could be the sponsor of game-live shows with Japanese players (and subtitled). In China there are also young people dreaming to become famous streamers and they could be hired.

If we talk about to create a new setting, then the best option should be grating the necessary time. Do you want sooner or better?

 

[beta-ray]

Finally cracked open my copy of Journey to the Radiant Citadel, and looked at Umizu. I am interested in a Japanese-inspired locale as well. And… it is a page and a paragraph. No maps. Umizu is a city-state and there is no sense of a larger country that it is a part of. It's like giving me info on Kagoshima but not telling me it is part of Japan or even the island of Kyushu. I also purchased Out of Luck from the DMsGuild. Aside from a map of a boat, I have no idea what the region is really like. Pretty disappointing. I am open to a Japanese inspired place that is not Kara-Tur in D&D but this one isn't really it. Not as is anyway. I hope they revisit trying a Japan (and other Asia) inspired areas…