D&D (2024) Asians Represent: "Has WotC Fixed the D&D Monk?"

I would much more like a D&D West game (where the Monk class is used to build Friar Tuck type characters) and a D&D East game (where ALL the classes are representative of Asian culture!)
I completely understand with this way of thinking and agree to a certain extent. It would solve some problems assuredly.

The only question I'd end up wondering would be that if 'D&D West' ended up greatly outselling and outplaying 'D&D East' (which is absolutely possible, with 'D&D' West having a much longer existence)... would it give the impression that all the Eastern identities and concepts were "shunted off" to the "lesser" game? And is that the world and image we really want?

It's what Hollywood deals with right now-- yes there can and should be shows that are starring and run by predominantly Black writers, performers, and producers... but does that mean there shouldn't also be representation in other shows that would otherwise be "coded White"? Presumably we'd want to get to the point where we could have both. The question is what are the growing pains going to be to get there?
 

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Or, how about this for a novel idea? We could all agree to stop pretending realism matters at all in our cool fantasy game!
It matters a little bit to me, but I can't say I'm the least bit bothered about an unarmored unarmed person beating the tar out of a dude armed with a great axe and wearing full plate. I'm just mystified by the argument that we need a real life martial artist to weigh in on the Monk. Do we get real life survivalist to help build the Ranger? Do we get experts on medieval martial religious organizations to help us build the Paladin or the Cleric?

Yes, Unarmed Strikes should be a major focus of the class, but many martial arts have a rich history of weapon use. I do not understand why WotC can't grasp that and insists on handicapping a monk should they choose to use weapons. They are part of the Warrior group - give them martial weapons, but also allow Weapon Masteries on unarmed strikes.
I think we all know that most people use weapons rather than their fists. But that's now what the D&D Monk is all about.
 

There will be an expectation that their game be everything to everyone

From themselves. Its the single biggest unforced error on their part.

The only question I'd end up wondering would be that if 'D&D West' ended up greatly outselling and outplaying 'D&D East' (which is absolutely possible, with 'D&D' West having a much longer existence)... would it give the impression that all the Eastern identities and concepts were "shunted off" to the "lesser" game?

If the game isn't popular it'll be because its a terrible game, not because it happens to have all the Sino-Japanese centric Asian stuff in it.

And lets be real, the Sino-Japanese focus is an issue unto itself if we really want to dig into it. Asia isn't just China, Korea, and Japan.
 

It matters a little bit to me, but I can't say I'm the least bit bothered about an unarmored unarmed person beating the tar out of a dude armed with a great axe and wearing full plate. I'm just mystified by the argument that we need a real life martial artist to weigh in on the Monk. Do we get real life survivalist to help build the Ranger? Do we get experts on medieval martial religious organizations to help us build the Paladin or the Cleric?
Those classes don’t have histories of cultural appropriation and stereotyping. If they did, then yeah, it would probably be best to consult someone with the appropriate cultural background to help revise them.
 


From themselves. Its the single biggest unforced error on their part.

If the game isn't popular it'll be because its a terrible game, not because it happens to have all the Sino-Japanese centric Asian stuff in it.

And lets be real, the Sino-Japanese focus is an issue unto itself if we really want to dig into it. Asia isn't just China, Korea, and Japan.
See, I don't agree. It's not just WotC who wants Dungeons & Dragons to be the flagship for everyone... all the people who play it want it that way too. And there will always be people who feel like the game does not go far enough to truly represent the player base that wants it to be.

And no... 'D&D East' could easily be just as good a game as 'D&D West' (if not better) and still not be as popular-- the quality of the game would not be the sole factor in this. More likely it would be two-fold... the languages and countries it got printed and released in, and the fantasy world representations of both and the audience sizes and expectations for them. If these two books were released in the same way D&D books get released right now... 50 years of D&D players would come to the table expecting Euro-medieval fantasy and not Eastern fantasy... so odds I think are good that if you put both books side-by-side any 'D&D West' would outsell 'D&D East' through no fault other than people's expectations and the numbers/locations available for purchase.
 

The interesting thing about Wuxia is that its understood to be the equivalent of Euro-centric sword and sorcery, and I think some of the same people who don't have any interest in the latter are curiously emphatic about the former.
The big clash for the monk is that weapons and armor are practically the norm in both. I couldn't think of any well known characters who don't use weapons or do something skin to casting spells except ones with heavy animal features or cybernetics that they use (often use with weapons too).

The only character I could even think of was saitama from one punch man & it's especially notable for being a deconstruction of the genere.

This just isn't true, for a lot of reasons.

To start with the obvious, most cultures have some conception of the great power that lies within the unarmed warrior. Just look around you. Whether it's "Hollywood action flicks" (that long pre-date the current spate of movies) with people being able to punch their way out of any problems, or the real-life glorification of Krav Maga and Afro-Brazilian Martial arts, or the Vedas describing the legendary fights and their heroes (which led to codification into actual schools of fighting systems) .... or even the current hot trope of superheroes, where, as we all know, Batman doesn't use a gun.

So to say that the idea that unarmed combat is only something that only belongs in some kind of wuxia fantasy just doesn't make sense.

More importantly, you are discounting the fact that D&D has always been a melange of different influences. This argument is simply a rehashed version of the old, "I don't want X in MY D&D so no one else should have it either." Just replace X with anything- science fiction? Anachronisms? Gun powder? Just look at the original class listing of D&D, and what is was truly inspired by-
Druids are the Roman recounting of Celts. So we're looking at sources from the 150 BCE to 100 CE.
Assassins, despite the trappings, are derived from the Middle Eastern Hashshashiyin, as recounted to the West in 1300 by Marco Polo.
Thieves were brought to Gygax as "box-men," with abilities that didn't exist until much later and are, again, based on romanticized reports from the Middle East first reported in the West in 1800s.
Bards were stated to be an amalgamation of Norse skalds, Celtic (?!?) bards, and southern European court minstrels.
Clerics were an admixture of vampire hunters from Hammer Horror films (1960s) and Odo of Bayeux (1097)/
Paladins were based off of Holger Carlsen from a book.
Rangers were ... well, we all know that one.

I could keep going, but it should be apparent. Ideas came from everywhere. They were put into a blender called D&D.

Now, all that being said, the original Monk was based off of Remo Williams in the Destroyer series of novels, as well as an influx of content produced in Asia (at this time, mainly Hong Kong). This was during a time when there were two separate things going on- first, appropriation. Remo Williams definitely trafficked in some of the uncomfortable tropes that were prevalent back then. White guy travels to "orient" (usually made up or unspecified or legendary location), finds old master, trains to become the greatest ever. Then again, we still see that today- Batman Begins, anyone?

More importantly, however, this isn't the 70s. Asia (generically, but more specifically the cultural powerhouses of Japan, South Korea, and China) export a lot of their culture to the United States. Heck, RRR just won an Oscar- showing that Bollywood is also getting its due, finally. This is a good thing! People today are able to enjoy amazing culture from all over the world, easily, and we see it reflected every day.

To stand athwart this type of progress and say that you don't want it in your D&D is fine, for your group. But I will not deny others the ability to play what they want.

Now, I do think that there are interesting questions. Asians Represent want the Monk to swerve harder into a more "Asian" approach- what is that, pan-Asian? Fantasy Asian? Personally, I think that the idea of having a more universalist approach that also allows people to create martial artists with the fantasy flair that they want is a better approach; whether it's a "Kung Fu," or "Capoeira," whether it's inspired by the Seven Deadly Venoms or Avatar: The Last Airbender or Roadhouse or RRR or whatever they want.
I give you
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When the class concept of avoiding weapons and armor in a world where they are commonly used even by those who are primarily nonweapon users matches a years long broadcast mocking from one of those cultures it says something that shouldn't be ignored.
As to batman not using a "gun", he absolutely uses weapons and armor. Batman along with everyone else even uses them in batman ninja.
 

Those classes don’t have histories of cultural appropriation and stereotyping. If they did, then yeah, it would probably be best to consult someone with the appropriate cultural background to help revise them.
So you don't really want a martial artists, you want a cultural consultant? Because when I hear martial artists, that could be anyone from Rhonda Rousey to Rodtang Jitmuangnon.
 


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