D&D (2024) Asians Represent: "Has WotC Fixed the D&D Monk?"

[The Myopic Sniper]

The Asians Represent podcast took a closer look at the Playtest 6 Monk and found it wanting.

(YouTube) Asians Represent: "Has WotC Fixed the D&D Monk?"

My takeaways of their main points (TLDR version):

- They seem confused by WOTC's efforts to make the Monk non-Asian coded while trying to bring more non-European representation into the game.

- They prefer the term "Martial Artist" if they go in that direction, but they almost seem to prefer keeping the Monk as Asian coded, but having Asian creators and writers design the class.

- They are critical of WOTC's decision to make the 2024 edition of the core books backwards compatible while still trying to tackle these big issues with the monk/martial artist class which they think will lead to not really addressing the fundamental issues with the class.

- They really don't like the term "Martial Discipline" and in particular "Discipline Points". They seem to think of disciplines as qualitative (different disciplines) rather than quantitative so Discipline Points is somewhat perplexing. They prefer the term "Spirit Points" if the Monk is going to keep the religious trappings of the Monk name. (I know other Asian creators didn't like the "spirit points terminology because it leaned into "mystical Asian" tropes. The class has removed some of those though did keep some of them.)

- They fear there are going to be a lot of South Park jokes in actual play around the discipline terminology: "You rack discipline." They see it as a total meme.

- They find restriction Monks to simple weapons makes no sense and is just something that is carried over from older versions of the class that need to be updated and addressed.

- They don't think that WOTC understands real world martial arts as well and suggest bringing in a consultant who practices martial arts from multiple cultures to fix many obvious issues with the way the game presents them.

Overall verdict: No, WOTC didn't fix the Monk. It is still an Asian inspired class, but now with an identity crisis. The change from Ki to Discipline does nothing to really broaden the concept beyond Asian martial artist so it is just some weak and awkward linguistic changes because WOTC is so beholden to backwards compatibility.

Any thoughts?

 

[Emberashh]

For my games take I went with Disciple for the name and theme of the class; it opens up the concept to more than just kung fu, and aside from one allowance for inspiration, I don't actually have any kung fu subs at all.

Instead I have:

Palam; Greco-Roman meets Senegalese wrestling; emphasis on position control. (Throws, pins, etc

Ihsan; inspired by Sufism; emphasis on anti-magic and healing

Natara; inspired by Hinduism, emphasis on reflection tanking (ie turning attacks into your own offense)

Apostate; basically Oathbreaker but not evil; very Medieval Christian. Emphasis on deflection tanking. (Idea is the character has renounced their faith and weapons, so if they must fight they don't actually wield any weapons themselves. This is also inspired by Tai Chi, but taken into a different context)

And all 4 are wrapped up in a class design that focuses on Martial psionics powered by dice pools.

 

[Vaalingrade]

- They are critical of WOTC's decision to make the 2024 edition of the core books backwards compatible while still trying to tackle these big issues with the monk/martial artist class which they think will lead to not really addressing the fundamental issues with the class.

Not actually addressing issues is the very soul of 5.5e!

- They really don't like the term "Martial Discipline" and in particular "Discipline Points". They seem to think of disciplines as qualitative (different disciplines) rather than quantitative so Discipline Points is somewhat perplexing. They prefer the term "Spirit Points" if the Monk is going to keep the religious trappings of the Monk name. (I know other Asian creators didn't like the "spirit points terminology because it leaned into "mystical Asian" tropes. The class has removed some of those though did keep some of them.)

Did they have anything to say about something like Focus points?

- They don't think that WOTC understands real world martial arts as well and suggest bringing in a consultant who practices martial arts from multiple cultures to fix many obvious issues with the way the game presents them.

That would be amazing!

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, my first thought reading “discipline points” was that it sounded like a caricature of East Asian martial arts practices. Good to know I wasn’t way off base with that impression.

The simple weapons thing doesn’t make sense but neither does it make sense that a wizard can’t, or that only a few classes can use heavy armor. None of the class-based equipment restrictions make sense, but that’s not the point. They’re about preserving those class’ identities. The fighter wears the best armor and uses the best weapons; the rogue sticks to light armor and nimble blades; the monk wears loose clothing and wields humble tools and their own body as effectively as the fighter does with more specialized battlefield equipment.

Bringing in a consultant is obviously the best plan. It’s astounding that WotC still seems to think they can get away with handle cultural sensitivity issues internally despite repeatedly proving themselves incapable of doing so.

 

[overgeeked]

The obvious solution is to hire Asian game designers, cultural consultants, and martial arts consultants. Instead of trying to “un-Asian” the monk (while paradoxically trying to increase non-European representation), make it true to the Wuxia roots it stems from. Double down on the Asian-culture-inspired-nature of the class and hire people who can vet the design.

 

[Minigiant]

- They fear there are going to be a lot of South Park jokes in actual play around the discipline terminology: "You rack discipline." They see it as a total meme.

My monk playtester already submitted his PC Cartmanason.

 

[Incenjucar]

"Discipline" is also going to get turned into a BDSM reference over and over.

We've also gone over how desperately WotC needs to bring in consultants in many threads now.

 

[MGibster]

They don't think that WOTC understands real world martial arts as well and suggest bringing in a consultant who practices martial arts from multiple cultures to fix many obvious issues with the way the game presents them.

Whatever connection any D&D class has to reality is tenuous at best. Why should the Monk be any different?

 

[prabe]

Whatever connection any D&D class has to reality is tenuous at best. Why should the Monk be any different?

The problems, or course, aren't about any actual connections to reality the Monk has; the problems are about the connections it seems to have, or those it seems to be supposed to have.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Whatever connection any D&D class has to reality is tenuous at best. Why should the Monk be any different?

Because having even a tiny iota of understanding of martial arts find its way into the game can be cool and fun unlike the places where D&D nerds try to force verisimilitude.