Asmodeus ~ 2nd Ed. concept no longer relevant

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I find the idea of the most powerful of the race of devils having anything less than deity-level power a bit silly. I mean, we're talking essentially about the Devil here. Shouldn't the Devil have some real power? Similarly, shouldn't Orcus, the Demon Prince of Undead, have some god-like power backing up his claim to fame? Or should Kyuss, the Greyhawk demigod of undead, be able to slap him down with impunity? "Bah! Demon Prince of undead? My rotting toe!"

Well someone like Nerull or Rao could come in and slap Orcus silly...but he would give a lesser god a good fight I'm sure.

 

[Nightfall]

Sorry I don't see that happening, at least in my view since I never though Nerull much of a god of undeath. But then as I said, this just my opinion. Necromancer Games version of Orcus is more how I pictured him. That of course is just me.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I just have to chime in (with no real relevant purpose) to say that I'm surprised everyone keeps mentioning Orcus as a deity-worthy demon prince, when we all know Demogorgon would kick his ass any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

*Ducks and leaps violently aside to avoid the oncoming attacks of rage being dished out, especially by the good folks at Necromancer.*

 

[Nightfall]

Mouse, you're lucky I like you...but even I don't think I can protect you from the Necro crew's wrath!

 

[Voadam]

Mouseferatu,

Is that once per babboon head or once per tentacle that he would use on Sunday?

Besides, Jubilex is definitely the god level power of the abyss, nothing says worship-worthy deity like a towering column of ooze, unless it is an overgrown fungus mold (Zuggtmoy).

 

[Skarp Hedin]

Thus spake Mouseferatu:

Demogorgon would kick his ass any day of the week

Yeah! Bring on yer fat, pasty, bloated, cheesey-backed, twelve-sandwich eatin', greasy, goat-face, gettin'-his-ass-kicked-by-Drow, Wand addict demon lord of the undead!

Demogorgon gots monkey-rage.

 

[Grazzt]

Thus spake Mouseferatu:


Yeah! Bring on yer fat, pasty, bloated, cheesey-backed, twelve-sandwich eatin', greasy, goat-face, gettin'-his-ass-kicked-by-Drow, Wand addict demon lord of the undead!

Somebody's seen "Harlem Nights" one too many times I believe.

 

[Skarp Hedin]

Hey! That must be two somebodies, Mr. I-Recognized-The-Reference.

Hee hee hee hee

 

[Desdichado]

Psion:
So? Who cares what the books say? It's your game. It is nice when the canon supports your view, but if it doesn't, frell it! (Farscape ref., sorry.)

Of course. Rule 0 always applies, but a big part of the problem is that I have to generate those stats myself if I ever want to use them as such. Since D&Dg isn't really too friendly on the chargen side of things, that's a big pain in the butt.

I am in the camp that states that the idea of making Asmodeus an overpower in 2e is dumb. However, I am also in the camp that the idea of making fiend lords and deities necessarily mutually exclusive (as espoused in DotF) is also intensely dumb and goes against the precedent of the prior editions (and thus many games).

Not to argue this issue now, but if not the Archfiends, who serves as the paragons of evil in the D&D cosmology?

I was happy to see domain writeups for Demon Princes in AoA. I also thought it was slick/convenient that they essentially made princes "statless" (i.e., divine) and lords confrontable. The best of both worlds.

True, that works well for everyone -- except those few who actually are thinking about possibly pitting PCs against Archfiends. With the Epic Level Handbook on the horizon, that's probably a real possibility sometime in the future.

 

[Tiberius]

My problem with the archedevils (and Asmodeus in particular) not being deity-class creatures is derived from the fact that Tiamat is a lesser god, as of D&Dg. IIRC, Tiamat has always been described as one of Asmodeus' most loyal servants and supporters. So, why would a lesser goddess serve an archdevil? Why isn't she ruling the Nine Hells? Doesn't make much sense, IMO. I think I'll go outside and take a few practice swings with my Rule 0 stick.

-Tiberius

[EDIT: Added baseball reference]