Asmodeus ~ 2nd Ed. concept no longer relevant

[Kobold Avenger]

Apparently many of you don't get what this thread is about.

Information didn't like the fact that in A GUIDE TO HELL which Chris Pramas wrote, said that Asmodeus was really Ahriman, who was an all powerful deity. And that some comment from Monte Cook, seemed to confirm to him that this wasn't going to be the case in 3e.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Hmm. Hadn't realized that the entity Asmodeus was supposed to be was called Ahriman. I never read any of the 2nd edition Asmodeus-related stuff.

My guess would be that Sigil hadn't read that either, and he thought the same thing I did--that the Ahriman you referred to was the evil god of Zoroastrean myth.

 

[Simon Magalis]

Kobold Avenger does have a point there... that IS what the entire thread is supposed to be about.

 

[Nightfall]

Still hold to the fact that Orcus will kick that drow cow out of his place.

The King of Hell can do what he likes.

 

[Great Umbrage]

Named good outsiders

I don't see why devils etc. should be deities. People seem to be suggesting that devils are the evil equivalent of good gods - they're not. Evil gods are the evil equivalent of good gods. Devils are the evil equivalent of angels (Solars, what-have-you).

"The Devil" in the game is not Asmodeus, but the primary evil god in your game.

I think the problem is that there are no "named" good outsiders in the game. There should be those that are the good equivalent of the princes (in judeo-christian mythology, for example, we'd be talking the Archangel Gabriel).

That's how my campaign works, anyway. So there!

That's because D&D has traditionally been played to slay evildoers, not angels and such. However, I can mention one named outsider in a core product (not adventure)...except I can't remember the name. He's the king of the throne archons from 2nd Ed. Also, I think the tome archons were all named at some point.

 

[Amen-Zulu]

Greetings,


Sigil(or anyone else interested in his ideas) check out my reply to your d20 post.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi all!

Hey the message boards let me in!

Now, this doesn't mean I deny the validity of the concept, and U_K's Worshipper Points System is something I really look forward to.

Cheers mate!

I have read Sigils posts (good luck with everything Sigil by the way!); one similarity between his ideas and mine is in the granting of spells. To me spells are not so much bestowed by the god but rather divine beings (or similar such beings who are themselves repositories for cosmic energy) are conduits (for such energy) that can be 'tapped' by clerics.

Reading ruleslawyers (hello mate!) quote from Deities & Demigods (which still isn't in my possession! ) seems consistent with the old Wrath of the Immortals Rules - whereupon the power of the 'gods' isn't relative to the strength of their worship. While just as practical mechanically, this is an inferior concept philosophically (and itself does little to promote roleplaying).

The system I advocate ties all of these concepts together under the pretext that all power is relative.

So power can be gained through worship; or siphoned from the planes themselves; or absorbed from other gods/outsiders (much as with the Quickening in Highlander); among other ways - and regardless of the source it all adds up to the same thing.

 

[Desdichado]

Kobold Avenger:
Apparently many of you don't get what this thread is about.

Information didn't like the fact that in A GUIDE TO HELL which Chris Pramas wrote, said that Asmodeus was really Ahriman, who was an all powerful deity. And that some comment from Monte Cook, seemed to confirm to him that this wasn't going to be the case in 3e.

Hold on just a minute. Can you clarify? I don't own Guide to Hell but I've talked about it a lot with folks that do have it, and I've never ever heard anything about Asmodeus=Ahriman. Are you saying that Guide to Hell makes that statement?

 

[Voadam]

[/color]
Hold on just a minute. Can you clarify? I don't own Guide to Hell but I've talked about it a lot with folks that do have it, and I've never ever heard anything about Asmodeus=Ahriman. Are you saying that Guide to Hell makes that statement?

Lies, all lies, I say. Asmodeus is just a tough individual devil. All he is intereseted in is internal hellish politics and prosecuting the blood war. Nothing to see here, nothing to see, move along.

The official press release from hell states that he is not, repeat not a Greater primal creator god of evil who is using the blood war as a distraction while he plots an evil end to the multiverse.

He leads the war against the evil demons, he is actually a good guy fighting evil. Monte is therefore correct to stat him as what he is, just an average guy with the courage to take a stand against evil.

 

[Skarp Hedin]

Joshua Dyal:

It sure does. I just re-read that section last night while looking through this thread. THe background is, roughly, as follows:
Ahriman and Jazirian were two mighty gods of Law long ago. They created a lot of stuff, most of creation I think. They had a falling out on the good/evil problem, and they separated (they had been joined together as serpents: each had the other's tail in his/her mouth). As Jazirian had wings, she flew to the top of Mt. Celestia, where she hides from all of creation -- other gods don't know who she -really- is, they think she's just the goddess of the couatls. Ahriman had no wings, so he fell to the very bottom of Hell. He changed his name to Asmodeus and he's waiting to heal up from his injuries from this fall. He also conceals his true nature from all and sundry.

That's a brief overview, and why Chris Pramas used Ahriman without also using Ohrmazd I don't know.