D&D 5E Assassinate

[Ahrimon]

Player: "I'm going to walk over and search by the thing."
DM: "You can't move."
Player: "Awe crap. I've been surprised again."
DM: "... just roll initiative..."

lol

I think raw works just fine for this. Assassinate just isn't as powerful as some people thought it was, which is ok for me because it's still plenty powerful for a level 3 ability that scales and improves later.

 

[redrick]

Where are you getting 6d6? At third level sneak attack is 2d6, doubled with crit for 4d6.

Plus the original weapon dice. Assuming a short sword or short bow.

Attack with short bow does 1d6. Plus sneak attack (at 3rd level) for 2d6 gives 3d6.

Critical doubles all damage dice, for 6d6 from one attack action. (Plus standard damage modifier.)

A scorching ray yields 3 rays, each of which does 2d6 damage. So, with one casting action (and a 2nd level spell slot), 6d6. (Plus damage modifier if a dragonborn sorcerer, if I recall correctly.) Obviously, scorching ray is nice because it can target multiple creatures. And it can light things on fire. So it's not a total 1:1 comparison.

 

[Ahrimon]

Where are you getting 6d6? At third level sneak attack is 2d6, doubled with crit for 4d6.

1d6 short sword + 2d6 sneak attack = 3d6 + 3d6 (crit)

 

[Celtavian]

Player: "I'm going to walk over and search by the thing."
DM: "You can't move."
Player: "Awe crap. I've been surprised again."
DM: "... just roll initiative..."

lol

I think raw works just fine for this. Assassinate just isn't as powerful as some people thought it was, which is ok for me because it's still plenty powerful for a level 3 ability that scales and improves later.

It's rather weak given how powerful other characters get. Even a 13th level Assassin is going to get a single attack for 16d6+5 damage. 61 points once as an opening shot.

How does that compare to say the warlock with Eldritch Blast that does 3d10+3d6+15 for an average of 42 every time he fires the ability. Or a Sharpshooter archer. Or a smiting paladin. Along with tons of other utility abilities.

An Arcane Trickster can choose hold person casting it from a hidden position giving the target disadvantage getting a crit nearly every round.

Seems like a much weaker ability now. Not worth taking. Then again it is barely worth taking even running it as we were running it with a guaranteed critical to open the fight. Pales in comparison to Arcane Trickster versatility. The only rogue worth taking if you want maximum combat contribution is the Arcane Trickster.

 

[Hriston]

They didn't. It is only your interpretation of the rule that ties Assassinate to initiative order, regardless of surprise. Clearly (to me) the intent was to give the Assassin an auto-crit if he has surprise OR higher initiative, not to tie it exclusively to initiative.

First of all, the auto-crit only happens when the target is surprised. How this relates to initiative depends on when you think surprise ends. My interpretation, which is in agreement with Mearls's tweet, is that surprise ends when the effects of surprise no longer apply, i.e. when the target's first turn is over. So while it isn't spelled out that the auto-crit ability is keyed off initiative, it would be impossible for the assassin to attack a surprised creature unless the attack is made before the creature's turn is over.

If there is no combat in an encounter, it is bloody well not a combat encounter. There are plenty of times when I've rolled initiative to see who went first when there was no threat, no weapons drawn, not even a dirty look. Initiative does not equal combat.

I too roll for initiative in pretty much every situation that could potentially lead to fighting. Many of these encounters do not lead to fighting. In setting up these encounters, however, I am following the procedures outlined in Chapter 9: Combat, and referred to throughout the rules as "combat". There is no other turn-based system in the game for resolving actions. There's also nothing in the combat rules that says participants are compelled to take violent actions on their turns. I think you know as we'll as I do that when Assassinate refers to a creature's "turn in the combat" that it is talking about a turn in the initiative-round based system called a "combat encounter". To assert this is not the case is to say that the writers of Assassinate were unaware of the meaning that the word "combat" would have in relation to the rest of the rules. This is not an assumption I would make.

Your apparent enthusiasm for nerfing Assassinate with a sketchy reinterpretation of "RAW" is baseless.

It's actually based on the text o the rules, and it's nice to know that Mike Mearls, one of the designers of the game, shares my "sketchy reinterpretation".

 

[Hriston]

You can use it every round of combat where an opponent has NOT YET TAKEN ANY ACTION in that combat.

No, Assassinate only gives advantage if you attack an opponent who has NOT YET TAKEN A TURN in that combat. That only happens in the first round, before the target's turn.

 

[Magistus71]

This is how we play it also.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Ok here is a question.

a surprise round hits, everyone rolls initative, but the dragon can't act.
intiative order is Fighter, Dragon, Assasin, Cleric....

rd 1 FIghter goes, Dragon can't act, Assasin goes, Cleric cast hold monster and dragon misses save.
rd 2 FIghter goes, Dragon can't act, Assasin goes, CLeric goes....

now the rule is:

3 level: you're at your deadliest when you get the drop on your enemies. You have advantage on attack roll against any creature that hasn’t taken a turn in the combat yet. In addition, any hit you score against a creature that is surprised is a critical hit.

so, the dragon hasn't taken a turn yet, he has been surprised, and now held. in what round if any can the assassin call a hit a crit?


my answer, 1st one only

 

[DEFCON 1]

Personally, I find it genuinely odd that people seem so concerned about the Rogue potentially getting a free crit once per battle that they're halving his chances for it by taking it away from him every time he rolls lower than his Surprised target during Initiative. Is the Assassin's damage really causing that much of a hardship for everybody that they feel like it needs to get nerfed?

 

[Paraxis]

Ok here is a question.

a surprise round hits, everyone rolls initative, but the dragon can't act.
intiative order is Fighter, Dragon, Assasin, Cleric....

rd 1 FIghter goes, Dragon can't act, Assasin goes, Cleric cast hold monster and dragon misses save.
rd 2 FIghter goes, Dragon can't act, Assasin goes, CLeric goes....


so, the dragon hasn't taken a turn yet, he has been surprised, and now held. in what round if any can the assassin call a hit a crit?


my answer, 1st one only

rd 1 Fighter goes, Dragon takes his turn but can't perform any actions or move, Assassin goes, .......

The dragon takes his turn before the assassin goes so the assassin does not get to make any of their hits automatic crits.