At my wit's end! Looking for advice on problem players...

[FreeTheSlaves]

I disagree. Why should it be her fault (the OP's) that a player acts disruptively in the game she's running? It would be her fault if she did nothing about it, but that clearly isn't the case here.

Because the greatest responsibility in ensuring a successful game is run lies with the dm. The dm has the greatest privilege to ensure they can carry out their greater responsibility & they need to exercise it & exercise it early.

Emirikol is not actually attacking Ellie_the_Elf, although he may appear caustic, he is in fact urging her to empower herself. Ellie_the_Elf herself recognises that the game is suffering because 2 players are running rampant, & the solutions now are twice as hard now than if she used the legitimate authority she possesses earlier on.

Taking the blame is not necessarily a negative thing, you accept that you've not handled the situation correctly & so you turn that blame into responsibility & act upon it.

 

[Thanee]

A bit too excusatory on your side, but otherwise sounds good.

Bye
Thanee

 

[iwatt]

Because the greatest responsibility in ensuring a successful game is run lies with the dm. The dm has the greatest privilege to ensure they can carry out their greater responsibility & they need to exercise it & exercise it early.

I see the DM as responsible for providing a fun campaign world for his players. I see no reason why a DM must also take responsibilty over "policing" the boorish behavior of a player. I play with adults who are able to interact socially in a civilized manner. If they are incapable of this they just won't play in my games. I don't see the point of warning somebody that been an ass to the DM and others is unaceptable. I sincerely believe this is prevoiusly understood. But this might be colored by the fact that everybody who knows me understands I have a very low tolerance for idiots, so I don't usually have to deal with this behavior.

 

[iwatt]

A bit too excusatory on your side, but otherwise sounds good.

Bye
Thanee

Maybe p5 is a bit defensive whenever he's questioned on anything? I've discovered that sometime it's easier to accept more than my share of the responsibilty when discussing things with people who take any negative comment as a personal attack.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

...and complaining about not getting additional roleplay xp for the trouble he caused (!)

This statement is symptomatic of his contempt for all other than himself on so many levels:

* xp awards are _awarded_ & noone has any right to make demands
* his inability to realize his disruptive play
* he feels he is able to pressure you to accomodate (chauvinism?)
* the very act of complaining when he is in the wrong

I am sorry to say this but straightening such a player is going to really drain you & for what gain? Psychological therapists earn their bread on people like this guy, is his contribution so great to make him worth fixing for free? My recommendation is to put P4 on notice & ask P5 to take a break for a year.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

I see the DM as responsible for providing a fun campaign world for his players. I see no reason why a DM must also take responsibilty over "policing" the boorish behavior of a player. I play with adults who are able to interact socially in a civilized manner. If they are incapable of this they just won't play in my games. I don't see the point of warning somebody that been an ass to the DM and others is unaceptable. I sincerely believe this is prevoiusly understood. But this might be colored by the fact that everybody who knows me understands I have a very low tolerance for idiots, so I don't usually have to deal with this behavior.

But you have in effect taken responsibility either as or on behalf of the dm; idiot players by your own admission are going to get the heave-ho in the game that you play in. The problem here is that noone in Ellie_the_Elf's group is speaking aloud their dissatisfaction & so she is the last & only line of defence; if she doesn't act then the game will degenerate further.

Emirikol & I otoh believe that the dm is the first & natural line of defence against idiots; & P4/P5 are idiots. She has let them in her game & now wants to correct their behaviour, do you suggest that she wait for P1-3 to spontaneously fix the problem?

 

[iwatt]

Emirikol & I otoh believe that the dm is the first & natural line of defence against idiots; & P4/P5 are idiots. She has let them in her game & now wants to correct their behaviour, do you suggest that she wait for P1-3 to spontaneously fix the problem?

Actually it's got to do with a gripe that I have that most players prefer that DMs deal with this crap :\ . It's a colaborative effort to play. If someone is disrupting play, it behhofs everybody to speak up. sadly, it usually is left to the DM to go through the trouble of kicking people out. Some people (lik me ) have no problem in booting people out if they're disruptive. My problem comes from the assumption that it is the DMs responsibility to solve these situations. And writing rules for these situations only reinforces this behavior (IMHO of course).

 

[Thanee]

Maybe p5 is a bit defensive whenever he's questioned on anything? I've discovered that sometime it's easier to accept more than my share of the responsibilty when discussing things with people who take any negative comment as a personal attack.

I tell them to grow up.

Bye
Thanee

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Actually it's got to do with a gripe that I have that most players prefer that DMs deal with this crap :\ .

Yep, there is an unhealthy urge by some players to duck for cover & overly rely on the dm to solve the problem situation; when they should be showing a bit of support.

 

[S'mon]

My problem comes from the assumption that it is the DMs responsibility to solve these situations. And writing rules for these situations only reinforces this behavior (IMHO of course).

I agree with those who say it is the GM's responsibility, assuming you don't have a clearly established rule otherwise. This is particularly the case if the GM is hosting the game at their own house. My advice to Ellie would be to see how p5 responds to her overly-polite note, if as seems likely he keeps pushing it, she really needs to ask him to leave or her game is going to go down the tubes. p4 should be asked politely not to be so loud - Ellie if you drop p5 & politely ask p4 to be nice his behaviour should greatly improve.