At my wit's end! Looking for advice on problem players...

[Veril]

Tell P5 that his character is not welcome at the table, You asked for heroes, not zeroes. Tehh P5 that his characters actions consisted of 'disruption' not good roleplay and that there is an XP Penalty for that.

Tell P4 that this is a game for a group, and that nobody should be dominating the table to the exclusion of anyone else. That his constant chattering while other players was going on was rude and disruptive.

 

[iwatt]

I agree with those who say it is the GM's responsibility, assuming you don't have a clearly established rule otherwise. This is particularly the case if the GM is hosting the game at their own house.

I think this attitude that the GM is responsible is partly from the fact that people are extrapolating the GMs in-game position of authority into the realms of "policing" social behavior. I don't see these connected at all. I've seen great DMs that would be unable to enforce these rules. The rest of the group has stepped up and layed the law down.

Even more to the point, these threads are usually started by people who have stepped up to the GM spot because they think they can run a fun game, and are then confronted with jerks who just want to test how much they can push. More often than not, the issue stems from the fact that these GMs aren't adversarial or socially "pushy" (like I am ), an IMHO these are the people that need the players support the most.

Finally Ellie, the fact is that you should ask every one of your players if they feel it's disruptive. If they agree then you should have no qualms on "ganging up" on him. I don't see the negative connotation that "ganging up" seems to have when a group of people who share the opinion that a jerk is a jerk go tell the the jerk to either shape up or ship out.

 

[S'mon]

I think it's good for players to support the GM vs a disruptive player, but if the GM takes no action it can be difficult for other players to know what to do - they think maybe the GM doesn't mind what the disruptive player is doing, and (reasonably) don't want to offend the GM. So they look to the GM for leadership. I think the Gm is naturally in a position of authority at the game table and this entails responsibiities as well as powers. Naturally for shyer or more reticent GMs it can be very difficult dealing with players who are jerks, which seems to be the case here, and certainly I would laud p1-p3 if they took issue with p5, but I understand why they might wait on the GM's lead.

 

[Emirikol]

Again, it's impossible for the players to support the DM if he doesn't even tell them that he needs support. We've always used the phrase, "Players Police their Own." That means that if the Dm has something he needs done he designates one or all players to do it for him.

Example: We play in Hyboria, the world of Conan. There are no elves. Nothing personal, they just don't exist there. A player comes to the table..late..of course, hasn't read the house-rule-book, and the DM doesn't get a chance to go over his character. Then in the middle of a fight, it turns out that he's playing an elf. I STOPPED THE GAME in the middle of the combat. Noted that I hoped everyone else had read the house rulebook and designated two people to fix this guy's character while I went outside to cool off. Guess how much peer pressure came down on that irresponsible player when 8 players had to sit there and watch him get his character sheet fixed. Needless to say, the rest of the players quickly got the point that if you waste my time, you waste everyone's time. (makes me feel like what our teachers used to say in high school I put the players to work fixing each other. Peer pressure is a powerful thing.

Other Examples: I run RPGA games and home games so inevitably I always have to face at least one person at the table who knowingly or unknowingly feels it's his job to wreck the game for the DM and everyone else (using whatever the tactic of the day is).
* the domineering guy who tells the other players what to do, it's the guy looking up monsters in the monster manual,
* the guy who blows up and throws his dice at the DM's wife's collectable porcelain dolls when he fails his rolls again,
* the guy who sit's right next to the DM and steals all the action from the other players by talking the DM's ear off,
* the person who added up their stats wrong or obviously cheated on their numbers
* the player who's character always runs away leaving the other people to die, while he goes off and steals the treasure (easily fixed by the DM isn't it?)
* the GIRLFRIEND who keeps telling her husband that he's immature for getting into character
* the guy who keeps getting off topic and talking across the table to another player about his magic game while it's not his turn
* The player who's not paying attention when his turn comes up in combat and we have to wait 30 seconds while he figures out what planet he's on
* the arse that wants to look up every ruling that the DM makes and argue every point
* the guy who knows the world better than the DM and says, "That's not how it is."
* the player who so maximized his barbarian that he makes combats completely no fun for the DM or the other players and then is completely incompetant in all other situations (i.e. basically screws the rest of the party in negotiation circumstances because he doesn't have any other useful skills).
* the drunk guy who picks on another ___player___
* the guy who brings his kid or his dog to the game and thinks that the game always needs to be disrupted because 'they're so cute.' Looooookie, isn' it cute how he just pee'd on the DM's battlemat. Looooookie, isn't he so cute, he just shat on my friend's basement carpet. Loooooookie, isn't he so cute just sitting there barking and whining in his kennel while we're trying to game...

All of those things call for a time out because you can't predict them, but otherwise the'res table rules. Nobody want's to have to be confrontational, but the Dm needs to make the first call. Is he going to deal with it and wreck the game for himself, or is he going to have 5 players gang up on the one jerk at the table. I say, "Make the players help the dm."


jh

..

 

[the Jester]

Hey Ellie, let us know how things turn out!

Good luck- your email sounded quite reasonable to me.

 

[Tarangil]

As mentioned previously, talking with the problem player should be the first thing to do to help the flow of the game & story. I've had similar situations with players going "astray" and leaving the other players bored because of the constant interruption and sidetracking. It's hard to keep things on track with out being a "Puppetmaster", and if the PC still is still meddleing with NPC's and ignoring his group.

I've had a player in the past very similar to that and he didn't really adhere to the group and dicked around in bars and pulling cantrips on people. Since he didn't listen to my suggestions, I gave him a scare because some of the NPC's became suspicious of that player of being a Witch and was run out of town accordingly with ye olde pitchforks and torches by supersicous villagers. The encounter didn't last long, and he ended up running back to the party with his tail between his legs. As punishment he wasn't able to enter that village for fear of retribution and had to get the other players to get supplies there for him from then on.

 

[Kurotowa]

Another good leason to come away with is, "No PC will be allowed unless I have reviewed the sheet and discussed the character with the player before gamenight." Too many unhappy stories start with a player surprising the GM with a new character.

 

[Ellie_the_Elf]

Hi again, and thank you again for all the advice- I have definitely learnt a few things from this whole experience if nothing else!

Yes, p5 is *extremely* defensive if called on his behaviour/silly decisions/anything really. Believe me, I didn't want to be that nice in my email to him! Case in point here, my boyfriend, who is playing a paladin in the campaign, made an in-character post on our campaign messageboard about how his paladin wasn't happy with what happened, how he hoped it wouldn't happen again etc. p5 completely blew up at him and sent him a reply accusing my boyfriend of thinking he was stupid/a child/etc. So avoiding direct criticism is pretty much the only way to get through to this player. Besides which, I know I've made a couple of bad decisions along the way- not reviewing his sheet before we started (which mostly happened because he was late the first week too and everyone was anxious to get started) and allowing the psion in the first place being the worst of them.

My other 3 players are being extremely supportive in offering advice etc. but would like to avoid a group confrontation, which I can understand. I've previously thrown two players out of the group - one because he had severe psychological problems, and quite honestly, he scared me, and another because he munchkined his character to extreme levels, entirely dominated the game, and then complained that the adventures were too easy. Neither of those situations left me feeling particularly good about myself, so this time I'm trying to keep from kicking anyone out except as a last resort. Turns out doing things this way is a lot harder...

Ellie

 

[iwatt]

Turns out doing things this way is a lot harder...

Ellie

That's because the dark side is easier, more seductive. Come to the dark side Ellie and kick p5 to the curb

 

[the Jester]

Yes, p5 is *extremely* defensive if called on his behaviour/silly decisions/anything really. Believe me, I didn't want to be that nice in my email to him! Case in point here, my boyfriend, who is playing a paladin in the campaign, made an in-character post on our campaign messageboard about how his paladin wasn't happy with what happened, how he hoped it wouldn't happen again etc. p5 completely blew up at him and sent him a reply accusing my boyfriend of thinking he was stupid/a child/etc. So avoiding direct criticism is pretty much the only way to get through to this player.

Well, if it comes to that, you can also threaten to kick him out if he doesn't change his ways.

It sucks, but sometimes it is the best solution.

I would try to explain to him that he's affecting everyone else's fun, and that his fun does not outweigh the entire rest of the group's. If he can't 'get it', then he really does have to go or the whole game will implode.

Finally, you might consider sending a link to this thread to him. It's amazing how often seeing the discussion about the events with outsiders giving advice opens someone's eyes. The other side of that is that he might end up feeling picked on- but honestly, again, that sounds like someone who isn't able to play well with others after all. :\