At what Cover Price do you Drop?

[jmsetzer]

This is an interesting thread. One question... several people have mentioned that 5 bucks is their cap for a magazine: why is this? What would a magazine have to do to get you to spend more than 5 bucks on it? Or is it just a matter of principle about the fact that magazines tend to be on flimsy paper stock and filled with ads?

Yeah, that's pretty much it: flimsy paper and ads reduce the threshold for me. I have been a subscriber from Issue 71 (and DUNEGON from the beginning) and as long as the subscription rates are reasonable I'll continue. By way of comparison, I no longer subscribe to WHite Dwarf, because it is way too expensive for the content (much of which is advertising their own products!).

 

[Brakkart]

At the moment both Dragon and Dungeon retail for 4.99 Sterling (approx$9.50) in my FLGS and that is about the limit of what I'm willing to pay.I buy every issue of both of them. On the plus side when/if 4E comes along and those magazines inevitably convert to cover the new ruleset I'll be spared the cost of both as 3.5 is as far as I'm going.

 

[sjmiller]

This is an interesting thread. One question... several people have mentioned that 5 bucks is their cap for a magazine: why is this? What would a magazine have to do to get you to spend more than 5 bucks on it? Or is it just a matter of principle about the fact that magazines tend to be on flimsy paper stock and filled with ads?

The reason I said $5 is my magazine price limit is for several reasons. Primarily, it is because the content to advertisement ratio in most magazines is absurd. The amount of readable material in most magazines has shrunk so much over the years that it is just not worth it.

Magazines like Time, Newsweek, Nature, or Popular Science also tend to have a problem with time sensitivity. The weekly magazines are better at being timely, but the monthly magazines have to be produced months in advance, and can sometimes be a bit dated in their material. This was not a big deal when I was a kid in the 60s and 70s, when you did not have the instant access to information that you have today. Now, however, being up to date can make or break a periodical.

Then there’s the fact that most gaming magazines are just pimping the latest thing published by the company who makes the magazine. White Dwarf only really talks about the latest thing for sale from Games Workshop. Dragon and Dungeon magazines usually only talk about the latest thing published by WotC (or Paizo). I do not feel the need to buy the latest and “greatest” thing from these companies, so the magazines tend to carry very little I can find useful or informative.

Finally, I have a limited budget for gaming. If I save up and buy a game book, or adventure, or some miniatures, I can almost assuredly get a high cost-benefit ratio out of the product. If I buy miniatures I am pretty much assured I will get things I want and will use. The same can generally be said about game books (though not always at the 100% level of miniatures). The magazines are really hit or miss. I think the last time I bought a copy of either Dungeon or Dragon I found I could use approximately 1 to 2 column inches of material from the magazine. At the current cover price the cost to benefit ratio is just too low. It is not enough bang for too much buck.

 

[el-remmen]

For Dungeon, i would probably pay up $10 an issue, maybe even $12. Though if I felt I needed to get it more than once or twice a year, I would subscribe. I have a backlog of nearly every Dungeon from #1 thru about #80-something - that is a lot of years of gaming - plus I like the older adventures better - generally speaking.

Dragon is not worth it to me at any price over $6 - unless there was something specific I wanted in it.

 

[delericho]

Then there’s the fact that most gaming magazines are just pimping the latest thing published by the company who makes the magazine. White Dwarf only really talks about the latest thing for sale from Games Workshop. Dragon and Dungeon magazines usually only talk about the latest thing published by WotC (or Paizo). I do not feel the need to buy the latest and “greatest” thing from these companies, so the magazines tend to carry very little I can find useful or informative.

Have you looked at Dragon and Dungeon lately? I ask because I don't think the criticism you've levelled is really fair at all at the present time (although it certainly has been at times in the past).

Every month, Dungeon features three complete adventures, the vast majority of which use only material from the three Core Rulebooks. And, where material from other sources is used, it is always reprinted in the magazine itself. (There are also some very useful articles but, to tell the truth, if you're not into using pre-generated adventures it's probably not worth buying the magazine just for the other articles.) As a note as to value, my group ran through the Shackled City adventure path, and found it to be one of the very best campaigns I have ever run. That's a year's gaming, at $96 at the current cover price. Frankly, I consider that a bargain.

Dragon is a bit more varied in content. However, they currently have two (three? four?) semi-regular series that are pure gaming gold. The Demonomicon may seem like a tie-in to Fiendish Codex, but not only does it predate the Codex, it also covers the individual demons in far more detail. The Core Beliefs articles provide extensive details on the worship of the deities from the PHB, fleshing them out in the manner that "Deities & Demigods" spectacularly failed to do. So, no product tie-in there. Dragon has also featured two articles now detailing entire lands from the Forgotten Realms setting (again, not tied to any recent release), and have had several Creature Catalogue articles giving a whole bunch of new monsters (personally, not my cup of tea, but still...).

In the issues that don't feature any of these semi-regular series, there is usually at least one feature article that is particularly good, such as constellations and fortune telling, wizard staffs, or elemental hazards. Each issue also features an Ecology article that tends to be of very high quality, and four two-page articles for the classes, meaning that even if nothing else takes your fancy there should be something you can use.

There have been some product tie-ins, but these tend to be relatively few, and are usually self-contained as far as is possible.

IMO, Dragon has never been better. In the last couple of years, there has been precisely one issue that I felt fell flat (ironically, and unfortunately, the 30th Anniversary issue #344).

 

[Darrell]

This is an interesting thread. One question... several people have mentioned that 5 bucks is their cap for a magazine: why is this? What would a magazine have to do to get you to spend more than 5 bucks on it? Or is it just a matter of principle about the fact that magazines tend to be on flimsy paper stock and filled with ads?

Hi, James--

I have to say, that does have a lot to do with it in my case. The paper quality isn't that bad, but the amount of ads has really started to turn me off. I accepted the number of ads for a long time under the reasoning that they were necessary for keeping the cover price stable, but now the cover price has increased, and the number of ads seems larger, as well (to me, at least). I used to have Dungeon in my pull file at my FLGS, and bought the occasional Dragon when it had something interesting in it. Now, I'll be buying the occasional Dungeon (primarily the ones with the four-panel city maps and such), and hardly even flipping through Dragon. The quality of the material is wonderful (particularly the adventure paths), but they're becoming cost prohibitive for such easily-damaged items. I have no problem payin' 30-50 bucks for a hardcover, but a magazine is a magazine, regardless of the quality of its content. It's easily torn or wrinkled. It starts to come apart easier than a book does. If you're anal about the condition of your source material (I am.), it's more difficult to transport on game night.

As to 'what would get me to pay more,' thicker covers might help, but that would cause another price increase. Ditto for poster-maps and handouts. I don't know what to suggest.

Regards,
Darrell King

 

[sckeener]

Or is it just a matter of principle about the fact that magazines tend to be on flimsy paper stock and filled with ads?

admittedly having a PDF version would eliminate the flimsy paper stock replacing it with other issues...

but I just thought I'd mention I'd switch completely to PDF if I could. Paizo could reduce their print costs (replacing with bandwidth costs.)


and btw I prefer Paizo's current method of pdfs (watermark) as opposed to DRM.

 

[Cergorach]

For one, i don't pay cover price. But depending on quality, usefullness and coolness i would say that i would be willing to go as high as 14 euro at the current actual pagecount (pages - adds).

The advantage of a magazine is that you can provide a huge diversity of content (while a sourcebook will cover a single subject). In the past there have been times when i wondred if Dragon was worth the paper it was printed on (this is of course very subjective). I don't expect to love everything in the pages of Dragon and Dungeon, but an issue needs to captivate me (how Paizo does that is Paizo's problem).

 

[Jaws]

I could easily subscribe, but I use Dragon mag as an excuse to buy something from my FLGS each month.

That way I always buy something each time I visit.


Peace and smiles

j.

 

[sjmiller]

Have you looked at Dragon and Dungeon lately? I ask because I don't think the criticism you've levelled is really fair at all at the present time (although it certainly has been at times in the past).

I'll be honest, I have not read either magazine in several years. I subscribed to Dragon starting at issue 45 and going to about 160 or so. I got the first year of Dungeon as a gift, but since I don't really use premade scenarios, I did not keep up the subscription. I also subscribed to Dragon when 3.0 came out, and kept that for a year. I also picked up an occasional Dungeon (mostly when Wil Wheaton was writing his column), but have not since the first Grayhawk map was included (I really need to find the rest of those). Each time I ended my subscription (or individual purchases) because I found the content not worth the cost.

I am a little leary about spending $8 on something that is potentially worthless to me. Once bitten, or in this case thrice bitten, one gets a little shy about taking the risk. I guess if someone gives me a copy (maybe I will bug relatives to buy me one) I will give it consideration again. I am afraid, however, judging by the content descriptions I have seen lately, I am not the target audience of Dragon or Dungeon magazine anymore.