Attack rolls and area effect spells...

[RigaMortus2]

Do we know yet if, when you make an attack roll with a damage-dealing area effect spell (such as fireball for example), if you roll a 1, do you still deal damage (perhaps just half damage)?

I believe Star Wars Saga works like that. Even on a 1, you deal half damage, because if you are hitting an AREA it's pretty hard to miss everything.

I do realize that when you make such an area attack, you roll once for each target in the area. I think this is different than Star Wars Saga, where you only roll once and compare that number to everyone's Defense, which turns into an all or nothing attack (either you are going to hit everything, or miss everything, depending on the one die roll).

But if I decide to waste my fireball on one target, and I center it on him, and I happen to roll a 1, I find it hard to visualize no damage being done. Sure, there may be Evasion, but that makes everyone have auto-Evasion when it comes to area effect spells and missing with them...

 

[neceros]

As far as I can tell you have to roll for each creature in the area. Presumably, unless it's otherwise stated in the power, you miss on a one always.

Mind you, a lot of the Spells say "Miss: Half damage."

 

[ThirdWizard]

I'm not sure where your concern is coming from (probably a thread I'm not keeping up with). A 1 is an auto-miss, however, a fireball (or whatever) does half damage on a miss. So: half damage on a 1.

Is that what you're asking?

 

[RigaMortus2]

I'm not sure where your concern is coming from (probably a thread I'm not keeping up with). A 1 is an auto-miss, however, a fireball (or whatever) does half damage on a miss. So: half damage on a 1.

Is that what you're asking?

Yup... Thanks

 

[Ravingdork]

The game designers over on the official Saga forums have clarified that a roll of a "1" misses entirely and doesn't even deal the half damage to anyone in the area.

4E, unlike Saga, requires you to make a seperate attack roll for each person within the area effect. Therefore, you could roll an automatic miss (dealing no damage OR the listed miss effect described int he power) against one target while getting a critical hit to another target (even if it is the same attack on the same area).

Hope that helps.

 

[Saitou]

I'm pretty sure I've read that you make separate attack rolls for every character in the AoE, but only one damage roll.

No link to back that up, though

As for the 'half damage on a 1', I have no idea.

 

[HeavenShallBurn]

I have a strong feeling that the roll for each target rule will be one of the first and most common house rules in most groups. It's just faster to make 1 roll against defenses.

Also it's not even a new concept. I've been using the "take 10 saving throw" variant from the 3.0e DMG since about 2002 and making a single roll in place of a lot massively speeds thing up.

 

[FadedC]

I have a strong feeling that the roll for each target rule will be one of the first and most common house rules in most groups. It's just faster to make 1 roll against defenses.

Also it's not even a new concept. I've been using the "take 10 saving throw" variant from the 3.0e DMG since about 2002 and making a single roll in place of a lot massively speeds thing up.

Star wars saga used that rule, it sped things up but made area effect attacks extremely swingy. They eventually had to make a rule that said AoE attacks could not critically hit after entire parties would be wiped out by a single lucky grenade crit from a storm trooper.

 

[Staffan]

Do we know yet if, when you make an attack roll with a damage-dealing area effect spell (such as fireball for example), if you roll a 1, do you still deal damage (perhaps just half damage)?

This will differ from spell to spell, I believe. For example, look at some of the wizard powers from D&DXP.

----------
Scorching Burst
At Will * Arcane, Fire, Implement
Standard Action
Area: Burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: +5 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6+5 fire damage
----------
No half damage there if you miss. But look at this one instead:
----------
Acid Arrow
Daily * Arcane, Acid, Implement
Standard Action
Ranged 20
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: +5 vs Reflex
Hit: 2d8+5 acid damage, and ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends). Make a secondary attack.
Secondary target: Each creature adjacent to the primary target
Secondary attack: +5 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d8+5 acid damage and ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage, and ongoing 2 acid damage (save ends) to primary target, and no secondary attack.
----------
This spell specifically states that even if you miss your target, they will take some damage, although there won't be any splash effect.

 

[Shroomy]

This will differ from spell to spell, I believe. For example, look at some of the wizard powers from D&DXP.

----------
Scorching Burst
At Will * Arcane, Fire, Implement
Standard Action
Area: Burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: +5 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6+5 fire damage
----------
No half damage there if you miss. But look at this one instead:
----------
Acid Arrow
Daily * Arcane, Acid, Implement
Standard Action
Ranged 20
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: +5 vs Reflex
Hit: 2d8+5 acid damage, and ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends). Make a secondary attack.
Secondary target: Each creature adjacent to the primary target
Secondary attack: +5 vs Reflex
Hit: 1d8+5 acid damage and ongoing 5 acid damage (save ends).
Miss: Half damage, and ongoing 2 acid damage (save ends) to primary target, and no secondary attack.
----------
This spell specifically states that even if you miss your target, they will take some damage, although there won't be any splash effect.

I think that damage caused by a missed attack has more to do with the power level. It seems that daily powers without the reliable keyword are the ones that seem to deal damage on a miss.