Auto-Quicken Spell + Multispell + Time Stop + Wish = Cheese (Time Stop+Wish Argument)

[Pax]

Re: Auto-Quicken Spell + Multispell + Time Stop + Wish = Cheese

So...let me get this straight. If an epic spellcaster takes the Auto-Quicken Spell feat 3 times, and the Multispell feat 5 times...the caster can effectively cast 7 spells per round. Top that off with a dash of Time Stop, and this guy can theoretically cast ALL of his spells in a single round, and then some... Here's how it would work: He casts 6 spells of any kind, casting the last spell as a Time Stop. Assuming a 4 is rolled, he can spend 5 rounds in the Time Stop. Casts 35 spells, and then another time stop. This allows him more time to cast his spells while still in a time pocket. When he is finally out of spells, save for 1 lvl 9 spell, he casts wish and wishes that he be affected in a manner that treats him as having re-memorized his spells, putting him back at his full spells per day. Lather, rinse, repeat.

A couple issues here.

One, the wizard cannot affect any creature other than himself, while under the effects of Timestop. Sure, he can put up non-instantaneous effects and let them come into effect when the Timestop ends.

But how many of those are going to be useful enough for a Wizard to bother doing that?

Two: what you describe is, IMO, well beyond the "safe limits" of a Wish Spell's power. Thus, GM twisting of the Wish is fully to be expected.

I'd rule that every spell except that wish itself was un-cast and put back in the Wizard's memory -- complete with undoing the effects of said spells. Enemy deaths included.

And that'd be if I was in a generous mood.

 

[Cloudgatherer]

Re: Re: Auto-Quicken Spell + Multispell + Time Stop + Wish = Cheese

One, the wizard cannot affect any creature other than himself, while under the effects of Timestop. Sure, he can put up non-instantaneous effects and let them come into effect when the Timestop ends.

While this is a variant presented in the ELH, one of the old rulings stated that this was not the case. You could leave the X fireballs hanging in the air and yes they would all "hit" when TS ended, dealing their normal damage.

I have no doubt the spell will be changed, probably something like you suggested (or is suggested in the ELH). Hopefully, they'll make it a lower level spell if they do that.

 

[Artoomis]

I'm sure you can't cast Timestop within a Timestop.

However, you could, I think, cast Timestop, then cast your 7 spells allowed in a round (1d4 +1 times), then another timestop (when the first one ends) as your second spell in the regular round, etc.

Would that work?

It will depend, at least in part, on the re-wording of Timestop in 3.5e.

Of course, this is only at rather ludicrously high levels when, for all I know, some defense to Timestop exists. At those levels, it seems like fighter types might want to have some sort of item that puts them in a anti-magic effect with a wide area of effect, forcing the comabt to occur on their terms.

At those levels, there will be gods and artifacts to deal with.

 

[Angcuru]

Apparently, some people don't know how the Time Stop spell works. Whatever spells you cast can either take effect at time of casting or when the time stop ends.

As for the wish spell going wrong because of misinterperetation, the way I run the spell is that depending on what you want to do, I assign an appropriate Wisdom Check DC. Stating your intent clearly enough to accomplish something like this with a wish spell would have something of a Wisdom Check DC 30.

 

[Artoomis]

Also, while a wish normally would not be able to do what is suggested here without possible dire consequences, I'm not really sure if some sort of Epic Wish couldn't do it.

 

[Angcuru]

Also, while a wish normally would not be able to do what is suggested here without possible dire consequences...

Which is why you have to make a Wisdom check to state crystal clear what you want to accomplish.

 

[Anubis]

First, play Time Stop by the book. Second, play Wish by the book. Doing this will prevent that ridiculous little scenario. There are no checks involved with Wish, it is strict interpretation of the Wish as worded by the player for the character. As for Time Stop, the only spells that can be left to work after the spell ends are ones with delay triggers (Delay Blast Fireball); no other offensive spells would work. This is clearly stated in the book.

 

[Artoomis]

First, play Time Stop by the book. Second, play Wish by the book. Doing this will prevent that ridiculous little scenario. There are no checks involved with Wish, it is strict interpretation of the Wish as worded by the player for the character. As for Time Stop, the only spells that can be left to work after the spell ends are ones with delay triggers (Delay Blast Fireball); no other offensive spells would work. This is clearly stated in the book.

SRD language:

...however, the character can create spell effects and leave them to take effect when the time stop spell ends. (The spells’ durations do not begin until the time stop is over.)...

An "instantaneous" duration spell meets the above criteria, so "by the book" a fireball will work.

Is the PHB language significantly different? If not, then instantaneous spells can be cast while in a Time Stop - they will activate when the Time Stop is over.

You might think that "duration" means longer than instantaneous, but that would only be one way of looking at this - hardly "clearly stated" as you postulate.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Well, as I understood, the duration thing was cleared to work this way in the ELH, if that is the case, and the wizard wants to use Epic Level Feats, he will also have to use the Epic Level version of Time Stop.

Unfortunately, I am not really familiar with the matter...

Mustrum Ridcully

 

[Artoomis]

Since I don't own the ELH, I will step aside.