Automatic Quicken Spell

[Aurio]

AUTOMATIC QUICKEN SPELL [EPIC]
Prerequisites: Quicken Spell, Spellcraft 30 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells.
Benefit: The character may cast all 0-, 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-level spells as quickened spells without using higher-level spell slots. The normal limit to the number of quickened spells a character may cast per round applies. Spells with a casting time of more than 1 full round can’t be quickened.
Special: A character can gain this feat multiple times. Each time a character takes the feat, the spells of his or her next three lowest spell levels can now be quickened with no adjustment to their spell slots. This feat doesn’t increase the casting time for those spells that normally become full-round actions when cast in metamagic form.


My question is: does the spell initially need to be of one of the allowed levels, or do you first have to apply any adjustments from other metamagic feats etc before calculating the spell's level and thereby determining whether it can or cannot be affected by this feat?

EXAMPLE: say a spellcaster has taken this feat once. He can quicken any spell up to level 3 without change to it's level, so he can quicken a fireball spell in this way. But what if he wants to quicken an empowered fireball spell? does it count as a 3rd level spell or a 5th level one? can he/she or can he/she not quicken it without cost?

One of my players confronted me with this dilema today and though i said a fireball is a level 3 spell regardless of what slot you expend to prepare it i'm having second thoughts. So if you can help me reach a conclusion, before my player takes the feat thus making changing my interpretation of it difficult, i'd be really grateful.

Thnx for thy precious time

 

[Joker]

It applies to the original spell as the level of the spell doesn't actually change. If it was Heightened, however, it would be a different story.

I could be wrong, but I'm so smart, I doubt that will ever happen.

 

[RigaMortus2]

I thought the new spell level would change to level 5 personally. In turn, the fireball DC would also go up. But maybe that is what Heightened is for... :shrug:

 

[Brain]

EXAMPLE: say a spellcaster has taken this feat once. He can quicken any spell up to level 3 without change to it's level, so he can quicken a fireball spell in this way. But what if he wants to quicken an empowered fireball spell? does it count as a 3rd level spell or a 5th level one? can he/she or can he/she not quicken it without cost?

I'd say that an empowered fireball would not be automatically quickened. It takes a 5th level slot. However, it would still count as a 3rd level spell for lesser globe of invulnerability or the like. I would say the same thing for metamagic rods as well, a lesser quicken rod couldn't be used on an already empowered fireball.

 

[Joker]

In all ways, a metamagic spell operates at its original spell level, even though it is prepared and cast as a higher-level spell.

This is what made me think that the 3rd level spell would be quickened at first. But now I see that AQS isn't a meta-magic feat.

Nutters.

 

[glass]

Also, note that the 3.5 versionof AQS has been crippled; it only effects 0 and 1st level spells. You'd have to take it three times to quicken a fireball, even without further metamagic.


glass.

 

[Ranger5]

Also, note that the 3.5 versionof AQS has been crippled; it only effects 0 and 1st level spells. You'd have to take it three times to quicken a fireball, even without further metamagic.


glass.

Where is this written?

 

[Numion]

I thought the new spell level would change to level 5 personally. In turn, the fireball DC would also go up. But maybe that is what Heightened is for... :shrug:

The spell is cast as 5th level - concentration checks use that. It is still a 3rd level spell though, so save DC is according to a 3rd level spell.

So, no AQS, since it's cast as a 5th level spell.

 

[glass]

Where is this written?

The 3.5 version is in Complete Arcane, I think.


glass.

 

[Aurio]

I ultimately ruled that spell level is not effected by spell slot as in the RAW it says:

Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up

besides, one could say that atomatic quicken is applied before any metamagic feats (after all it's automatic ) like:
fireball + automatic quicken = 3rd level slot
automatically quickened fireball + empower spell = 5th level slot

EDIT: the feat from complete arcane is sudden quicken. automatic quicken is an epic feat (and sudden quicken doesn't even have a spell level restriction)