AV2: legacy weapons?

[fireinthedust]

so I'm wondering if AV2 is worth it, and what the legendary/legacy weapons are like this edition.

Specifically, I have a barbarian that I want to have own a "sword of power" type deal. I don't mind if paying Residuum every few levels gets it powered up. I just want to know if I can feasibly keep the same weapon, or if I'll just WoW with a new blade every so often.

Does AV2 solve my problem?

 

[Deverash]

so I'm wondering if AV2 is worth it, and what the legendary/legacy weapons are like this edition.

Specifically, I have a barbarian that I want to have own a "sword of power" type deal. I don't mind if paying Residuum every few levels gets it powered up. I just want to know if I can feasibly keep the same weapon, or if I'll just WoW with a new blade every so often.

Does AV2 solve my problem?

there's nothing like the Legacy weapons of 3e(or Thread Items from Earthdawn which I've always liked). You can, as always, upgrade your weapon's enhancement bonus without having to switch out weapons. That was introduced as an alternate use for Enchant Item in AV1.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The DM can also play along and give you item levels as treasure, which was another concept mentioned in AV1. Just tell the DM what you'd like to do and maybe it will happen. I've been using this technique a bit in my game and the players do seem to like it. Its a bit more fun than making them constantly shop for their iconic gear.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

While legacy weapons were not discussed in AV2, they can be implemented in 4E in a few easy steps, as a house rule:
1. Hand out any 'scaling' magic item. (Magic weapons/implements are the classic choice)
2. Allow that item to 'scale up' to the level of the person carrying it so that it has the appropriate enhancement for their level.
3. Scale back loot a bit for those characters possessing such items, as they will need few upgrades (as there legacy items automatically upgrade).

I've been doing this since before 4E (in 3.5, in fact) and it works great! Less silliness with the players 'gearing up' and more focus on the story and the characters. Also works well with just 1 item, like an artifact or the like.

 

[CapnZapp]

While the idea is great, the implementations suggested all suffer in my opinion.

Disclaimer: I dislike the idea that the player is entitled to making wishlists and generally getting what he want. I strongly oppose any metagame communication. I want the treasure to be placed by the DM, but still be sufficiently generic to be usable by all.

Handing out "item levels" is metagamey and fiddly. How exactly do you hold back some treasure from a single PC (without discussing it with the player and telling him to not have his PC grab his fair share)? And there is no actual treasure?

I would far prefer (and I'm still waiting) for WotC to implement this idea in a way that doesn't require the DM to discuss his PCs treasure with the players, ruining the immersion and the illusion that the treasure is "random".

For instance, instead of handing out "item levels", I want the game to feature magic items that are consumables containing these upgrades. A energy gemstone perhaps that can upgrade any item's enhancement bonus by +1. (That's the equivalent of five item levels; with the benefit that anybody in the group can use it, regardless of which weapons, implements, neck items or armor he or she fancies)

This way there's no need to artificially keep a certain character from claiming his share of the loot. The character who selects this magic jewel simply doesn't get some other item, and that's that.

---

Legacy items sounds like a great idea. I gather you're saying these items come with a ritual (of sorts) built in? You sacrifice residuum (or whatever) in a tasteful ceremony appropriate for your kind of character, and that is simply translated into item levels (sacrificing 4,000 gp is enough to bring your armor from +5 to +10. Yes?)

This sounds like a wonderful hands-on non-metagamey solution, and I wish the AVs would have included them over the terrible and abstract wish-listey player-entitling approach!

 

[Tai]

I have no opposition to the concept of wishlists in principle, as long as players don't expect to get everything on their lists. Particularly, if one of your players decides to whip multiclass, and you don't put any whips in the game, he's going to be a sad player. Yes, they can make their own arrangements with rituals, but you cap their item level and make them pay for things the other players get for free, just because they decided to be different.

Re: Legacy items, you can always re-enchant the items using the enchant item ritual, or use transfer enchantment to rip the vorpal off the +4 battleaxe you found and stick it in the +2 battleaxe of your ancestors. I'm sure they won't mind ^^

If you want to use upgrade gems in your game, I'd suggest making them enchant a weapon at their specific level, i.e. you give them a +3 vicious gem which can make any appropriate weapon into a +3 vicious weapon. That way you keep the same treasure level as the book recommends (if you want to do that). Also, you can have a ritual to remove the gem and put it in a different item - the transfer enchantment ritual will give you a good cost guideline for that.

 

[Marshall]

There is nothing like 3e Legacy weapons in AV2.

However, it would be simple to adapt the item sets idea into a weapon. Either use the power gems idea and have the weapon build up based on the number of gems or Design a set that powers up an single item with each addition.

 

[msherman]

An argument could be made that an 8+ item at level 13 just plain isn't as powerful as a 13+ item at level 13. Given that, it might be fair to allow a generic "Power Gem" wonderous item, priced as a 6+, which can be applied (permanently? maybe not, even) to any item 1-5 levels below the level of the gem, raising the item's level by 5.

 

[Zinovia]

For instance, instead of handing out "item levels", I want the game to feature magic items that are consumables containing these upgrades. A energy gemstone perhaps that can upgrade any item's enhancement bonus by +1. (That's the equivalent of five item levels; with the benefit that anybody in the group can use it, regardless of which weapons, implements, neck items or armor he or she fancies)

That's a great idea! Then I can watch the fight as they players argue about whose character deserves it the most! Nah, they are usually pretty good about distributing treasure, but they often don't give it to the person I'd intended it for.

I really do like your idea however, and think I'll use it. Some of the items they have now are fairly interesting and I'd rather see them upgraded than replaced. Unless the characters choose otherwise - which they often do just to be contrary. Ah well, the best laid plans of mice and DM's...

 

[Byronic]

If you want weapons that go level up with the characters I might have a solution.

Instead of legacy weapons, use jealousy weapons. Jealousy weapons are much like other magical weapons except for two things. One is that they become more powerful overtime as the character gets more attune to them and unlocks their greater strength, the second is that they cannot stand other magical weapons.

What the jealousy weapon does depends on the personality of the weapon itself. Some might attack the person holding them, the hand holding the offending weapon or those around them. Others might simply refuse to work, locking their abilities away as they ignore their wearer.

the weapon might even refuse to leave the character...