Avenger Multiclass Feats

[Larrin]

I think the difference is that 'Disciple of Divine' Wrath lacks the line "You do not regain the use of the power if the target drops to 0 hit points." Ideally with Disciple of divine as long as you kill your enmity target before it expires...you get it back. So if you use it for a killing blow or on a minion....you have multiple uses of it. With Hero of faith, you can't recharge it.

For the record, i've been using disciple of divine feat for a long time, and this has yet to happen....

 

[Ryujin]

I think the difference is that 'Disciple of Divine' Wrath lacks the line "You do not regain the use of the power if the target drops to 0 hit points." Ideally with Disciple of divine as long as you kill your enmity target before it expires...you get it back. So if you use it for a killing blow or on a minion....you have multiple uses of it. With Hero of faith, you can't recharge it.

For the record, i've been using disciple of divine feat for a long time, and this has yet to happen....

I would say that you don't regain either in the opponent drops. The first only lasts until the end of your next turn and can only be used once per encounter. To me, the fact that it doesn't state that it recharges means that doesn't recharge.

 

[Turtlejay]

I would say that you don't regain either in the opponent drops. The first only lasts until the end of your next turn and can only be used once per encounter. To me, the fact that it doesn't state that it recharges means that doesn't recharge.

That was my understanding as well. It seems like the Hero of Faith allows you to use the Oath for an encounter, and the other one only allows you to use it for one round (like the Ranger multiclass). Both could have their uses, allowing a second roll on an important daily or something. Kind of like a preventative Elven Accuracy.

Really, that 15 Wis is very doable even by Epic tier with Fighters and Rangers. Are you telling me that a ranger wouldn't want to roll twice on Twin Strike at epic tier? That is 4 die rolls, your odds of rolling a crit just became very nice indeed.

Not to mention daggermasters, granted this is a dead ability for them, but wouldn't it be worth it to roll twice on an enemy for an entire encounter? Statistics nerds, what do you think about it?

Jay

 

[Garthanos]

Really, that 15 Wis is very doable even by Epic tier with Fighters and Rangers.

Sure ... maybe even tempt them in to putting a few points in wisdom earlier on.

Cool looking/working multi-class feats .. are temptations to diversify...

 

[renau1g]

do you have a link so I can watch the train wreck.. I am getting too horrible of visions and hoping it isnt so dark.

Ranger/Avenger DPR build (180.21 At-Will DPR) - Wizards Community - here you go. It's only averaging 180 DPR with at-wills, level 30 ranger, with twin strikes

 

[Legildur]

..There are some ridiculous builds on the CHar Op boards about easy ways to abuse this feat.

I think this says it all. Watch for errata

 

[Garthanos]

me thinks twin strike is the thing needing errata... but sigh.

 

[Turtlejay]

It wouldn't be so bad if it was just this feat in isolation, but if you look at those builds, this feat is really just one of a series of offenders. Because this allows them to take an epic feat that gives two oaths, and power swap for a utility that can switch an oath, it means that you can be just about as good as an avenger.

A lot on the charop boards make me queasy, and I can't imagine anyone seriously attempting some of that garbage in a game. If it were my game, we'd be having a serious heart to heart...

Jay

 

[Garthanos]

It wouldn't be so bad if it was just this feat in isolation, but if you look at those builds, this feat is really just one of a series of offenders.

Well it cant be entirely in isolation ;-).

Because this allows them to take an epic feat that gives two oaths, and power swap for a utility that can switch an oath, it means that you can be just about as good as an avenger.

A lot on the charop boards make me queasy, and I can't imagine anyone seriously attempting some of that garbage in a game. If it were my game, we'd be having a serious heart to heart...

Jay

Yeah looking at it does make my stomach feels a bit like its been tap danced on.

I just wonder how many abusive builds in general feature twin strike... but I hesitate to dig too deep.... because supper was good the first time around.

 

[FireLance]

Well, assuming the rest of the math is correct and the character is legal, Hero of Faith basically ups the average damage per round from about 139 to about 180, which is an increase in average damage of about 29.5%. For most standard monsters of that level, that is generally the difference between killing it in two rounds and killing it in three. Hence, against a single standard monster, there is acually very little difference between Disciple of Divine Wrath (which, if you time it properly, can give you the double attack rolls for two rounds) and Hero of Faith.

Of course, the difference is more pronounced against elites and solos, which are more common at higher levels. The Mighty Enmity feat and the refocus enmity utility also help a character with Hero of Faith to spread the pain to more enemies in a fight.