Avenger Staff

[Zhure]

So I'm sort of un-optimizing an Avenger (Retributive). Thematically he wants to wield a staff, and is MC'd as an invoker so can use the properties of most staffs (not as an implement per se, except with his one Invoker power) and has a regular Holy Symbol for his other Avenger Implement powers.

The problem is: going from a fullblade (previous concept) to a staff has destroyed his DPR. Can anyone suggest a good staff to bring him closer to a fullblade's DPR?

(Any level, the character starts at 4 but will upgrade as needed eventually.)
Z

 

[Dan'L]

I'll suggest a Bloodclaw weapon from the AV. Since you wield a staff two-handed in melee, the extra damage can stack up quick. And thematically, making a blood sacrifice to your deity to gain increased power could fit right in.

-Dan'L

 

[Plane Sailing]

A 1d8 weapon will never do the same damage output as a 1d10 weapon or a 1d12 weapon, and that's that.

Maximising dpr isn't necessary for a fun character (not even if that character is a 'striker'). He gets his two attacks against oath target so he will have the fun of hitting a lot.

With a staff the best bet is to use the 'staff as two weapon' feat from Dragon, then you can get into the whole 'two weapon fighting' feats which will offer interesting opportunities to increase damage, increase defence and such.

Cheers

 

[sdt]

How about taking Power Attack to bumb up your damage?

 

[vladbat]

What about the two weapon fighting feat from a dragon magazine. It allows the weapon to be used two weapon style. Might be worth a look?

 

[RangerWickett]

If he's just using the staff for flavor, I'd let him deal d10 or d12 damage with a staff, since basically you're just calling a sword a staff because it's more flavorful. If he wants the staff so he can use another class's powers, maybe let him spend a feat to use his sword as an implement for another class.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, a simple weapon's never going to do the same DPR as a DPR-spec'd Superior weapon. That's rather obvious.... but!...

...Staff Fighting, Two-Weapon Fighting, and Weapon Focus: Staff will give you 1d8+2 to damage with Staves for both your Avenger powers AND your Invoker powers. Fullblade is 1d12, the same average damage! You won't be the damage dealer that a pure Avenger is, but that's beside the point, you're MCing into a less damaging class anyways. But that's okay. You can still do -really- good damage with this feat combo.

Most of the damage for an Avenger comes from Oath and/or Censure anyways, so a loss of a point here and there isn't as terribad as you'd think.... and they don't get as high in the x[W] department as other strikers (until epic) so static damage bonuses work.

And Oath more or less means in terms of DPR that those static bonuses are 1.5 times as good as they are for other strikers.

You're definately not going to be hurting with this, and I'd like to get some anecdote on how this works:

Human Avenger. Your feats will be:
1) Staff Fighting (Needs wisdom, which you'll have plenty of), Two Weapon Fighting
2) Invoker multiclass
4) Weapon Focus

And from there, MC into Invoker as little or as much as you want.

The cool thing is that you'll have +1 to AC as well!

 

[Zhure]

Thanks everyone for your input, much appreciated. No decisions made as yet, but I'm thinking a Vicious staff might be the way to go.
Z

 

[Piratecat]

I ran into a similar issue when I considered converting a 3rd edition lasher rogue into an avenger. Using a whip as your primary avenger weapon? Honestly, not so appetizing.

 

[RangerWickett]

Dranko's an avenger?!

I need to go to Gen Con just to give you a hug, man.

Please, let me know what you ultimately decided for converting him (if you actually are converting). There needs to be more whip love in 4e.

Hm. I should pitch to Dragon.