Average Length of Combats [Poll]

[el-remmen]

I like the IC idea nem. How the heck to you implement it?

And will we need a new thread to discuss this?

What do you mean how? I simply told the players from the beginning that that is how it would be and that is how it was. . . I mean, I *am* the DM - Anyway, two of my current players have been playing with me for years - and that is how we've always done it - even with 2E - Honestly, I think doing it any other way is "cheating".

 

[WizarDru]

I could see how you could enjoy that style, but it's not really to my group's style. I can easily see how your combats can run significantly longer, though, if both PCs and NPCs are yelling out that they need heals, or they need a specific buff in the heat of combat.

For that matter, if the spellcasters are buffing after the combat begins, that's another factor right there.

 

[el-remmen]

I could see how you could enjoy that style, but it's not really to my group's style. I can easily see how your combats can run significantly longer, though, if both PCs and NPCs are yelling out that they need heals, or they need a specific buff in the heat of combat.

For that matter, if the spellcasters are buffing after the combat begins, that's another factor right there.

My question is, how do you explain how PCs know that someone on the other side of the battle field might need battle aid, healing or a buffing spell? What if a silence spell has been cast?

What if a PC is bleeding out and unconscious and fallen in the brush yards away? How does the cleric who is fighting whomever or whatever know to get over there?

Are PCs just assumed to be omnisicent?

 

[hong]

My question is, how do you explain how PCs know that someone on the other side of the battle field might need battle aid, healing or a buffing spell?

They yell really loud.

What if a silence spell has been cast?

They yell really, _really_ loud.

Are PCs just assumed to be omnisicent?

Within limits.

 

[el-remmen]

Hong, your answers are unsatisfying.

So by "yelling really loud" do you mean then that PCs can only act on information they could reasonably know?

So, my example of the bleeding PC would likely lead to his death?

 

[hong]

Hong, your answers are unsatisfying.

Yea, but Nemm, you're just, like, _weird_, you know?

So by "yelling really loud" do you mean then that PCs can only act on information they could reasonably know?

So, my example of the bleeding PC would likely lead to his death?

We tend to use a rather loose definition of "reasonably know". As long as something isn't completely impossible, eg the fighter figuring out that the bad guy is casting a spell he's never seen before, we tend to let it go.

Complete fidelity to in-game reality just isn't a major factor in what we want out of our game.

 

[Valanthe the Sleepless]

Being a player in WizarDru's game, I can say that it seems like combats take longer than 3-4 rounds. I would put the average at 5-6. And even the shorter ones feel like forever. We don't fly through any encounter.

Some factors might be that we have 6 players instead of the average (according to WoTC) 4. Also, to answer Nemerle on how we know who needs what, we have have Dragon Scales from our benefactor, that let us communicate. Wizardru forgot to mention that.

I don't think anyones DMing skills should be called into question because the combats are either long or short. Combats depend on the situation, how many players, group level, the enemy, buffs, etc, etc.

I know that Wizardru is a damn fine DM and story teller, all of us in the group would say so. And I am sure that the other DMs that posted here are good too.

Some combats go quick, the big ones are definitely a longer, bigger deal, and minor encounters are shorter. Ebon Claw, Night Scale, the Cathezar plus 2 Balors, they were the longest, with NightScale still being a great measuring stick for our major encounters.

And don't forget times where we had shorter combats, but there was a lot of them close together, wearing us and our resources down. Night Fang Spire was hell. Short but dangerous combats, wearing us down and killing our morale.

So I think it all depends, but maybe the average for your group is best for them but another group might have a different average length that suits there campaign just fine. Whose to say?

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Schmoe]

I find that some of the most memorable encounters are those where the groups engage, they disengage and collect themselves and try to gain a tactical advantage, and then re-engage. These could be considered either one or two (or more) encounters, and all told usually run 10+ rounds.

One example was a battle with a Babau demon. The party encountered the demon unprepared, fought for several rounds before realizing it would kill them all, then retreated to safety (presumably). They strategized and prepared, then came back to the cave and went in to kill it. In the meantime, however, the Babau had polymorphed into an inconspicuous form and waited for the party to enter the cave so that it could attack their rear. The PC's got the better of it, but each group in its own way reassessed the situation and came back, trying to gain the advantage. In my mind, this was a single encounter that lasted several minutes, but it could also be considered two seperate, shorter encounters.

Of course, the "climactic" battle that ends suddenly can also be quite memorable. My players still talk about Kisishtri, the agent of vengeance sent by the Juniper Lord to smack them down. He had barely enough time to deliver his message of vengeance before he failed his save vs. a Hold Person (needed to roll a 3 or better!). I'm glad that I didn't fudge the roll, as it gave the players a chance to savor a complete and lop-sided victory against a formidable opponent. They know that the same could happen in reverse, if they aren't careful, so they appreciate the victory.

 

[Storminator]

I find that some of the most memorable encounters are those where the groups engage, they disengage and collect themselves and try to gain a tactical advantage, and then re-engage. These could be considered either one or two (or more) encounters, and all told usually run 10+ rounds.

This just happened in our climactic encounter. We were excecting the smack around some peons, when one of the peons turned out to be the BBEG. And he cast Time Stop. When the TS was over we were in serious battle. So we teleported out of there. An important NPC had been zapped to the ethereal plane, so after the teleport, we planeshifted and teleported back to get him. The BBEG and us arrived on the same round, and proceeded to beat the hell out of each other. Technically two combats, but only a couple of rounds in between, so I counted it as one.

All agreed it was a great time tho.

PS

 

[WizarDru]

My question is, how do you explain how PCs know that someone on the other side of the battle field might need battle aid, healing or a buffing spell? What if a silence spell has been cast?

What if a PC is bleeding out and unconscious and fallen in the brush yards away? How does the cleric who is fighting whomever or whatever know to get over there?

Are PCs just assumed to be omnisicent?

Well, Valanthe has already mentioned that the characters in our primary game have the dragonscales, a custom item from their patron that allows essentially a mindlink between them.

Beyond that, it depends on the situation. In general, I treat certain aspects of combat the way I treat certain aspects of non-combat: we assume things not generally stated. To us, the tedium of stating every minor action is just that, tedious. I automatically assume that the cleric is watching everything that's going on around him, and especially given his advanced heal skill, can easily recognize the signs of his compatriots' distress. By the same token, I assume that the players have trained together enough to have hand-signals, gestures and experience to know each other well enough to fit as an effective unit.

I don't ask how they swing their weapon, so I don't ask how they know to set up a flank. They are aware of each other's abilities, and we 'torch issue' that. As regards combats where the PCs are separated, or senses are cut off...then yes, they're in deep trouble. They almost never let that happen, however. They very rarely fight on anyone's terms but their own, and work very hard to make sure of it.

Without the scales, in times of crisis, I do enforce such communication rules as it seems logical to do so. I don't see a problem with the way you do it, but it just seems a way to slow down the game to us, and we have precious little enough time as it is to play.

(oh and Val, thanks. )