D&D 5E Aversion to Creativity?

[Greg K]

I have rewritten/house ruled huge portions of 1st-3e to be suitable to me. Since 1e, I have written my own campaigns and adventures (Since late 2e, I just write the first adventure and, then, provide many pre-established hooks for the players to pursue along with those of their own creation (provided they fit within my established setting limits ). However, I have created only three or four monsters and, maybe, a dozen spells (just variants of spells such as Detect Fey, Protection From Fey).

There are, however, many things I am not interested in doing myself. For instance, I don't want to rewrite the cleric, again, to be more like 2e specialty priests, but is a necessity for me to run 5e. I want to rewrite several of the classes to get their subclass at first level, because I think whom they were trained by, the druid's circle of the land should have more of an effect on starting armor, starting weapons, and/or spells known.
I see many good things about 5e, but there are also many things that I want to change and 5e is competing against several other games that I also want to run. If the options are already there for me to grab and work in, I am more likely to run 5e . This was the case with 3e. I owned the core books from its release, but got tired of creating house rules and creating new class variants to tailor the game. Unearthed Arcana and a few third party products motivated me to run 3e, by reducing the number of things that I personally needed to change myself.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I feel sorry for you then. The fact that you will turn a blind eye to the work of a 3rd party publisher and just by rote call it "real" because they are so-called "professionals"... but can't do the same to your own work is a shame. Too many of us are blinded by authority to our detriment.

Who says I do by rote? I learned to design things by analysing the designs of those better at it than I am. Starting off with third party

Seems not as many "people" as to cause the designers to cater to them.

Thankfully.

Oh please! 5e is full of rules. AD&D was the triumph of those who kept asking Gygax rules questions until he published a book swarming with them (and stopped paying Arneson royalties). Rules heavy has always outsold rules-light. This is a pity, but even now it;s the case

My point is that if you (generic "you", btw) are a DM and are any good at your 'craft', you create rules, spells, monsters, etc. all the time during game. A DM who just up and closes his books, and says "I guess we have to quit guys...there aren't any rules for fixing up a smashed galleon...sorry" an hour into the 5-hour session really shouldn't be DM'ing as far as I'm concerned.

When I see DM's, for lack of a better word, "passing the buck" to a game company (re: WotC or 3PP) and then complaining about having passed said buck it has me scratching my head. I mean, why even play an RPG if all you are going to skip over one of THE most rewarding aspects of it? The use of you and your players imaginations? It just doesn't make any sense to me and I just don't get it.

I've once seen that. It wasn't from a good DM. But this post is IMO an illustration of the "First you catch your cow" school of cooking beefburgers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with buying beef and mincing it - or even buying burgers from the supermarket. And we don't say people aren't chefs because they can't handle cows that are still mooing.

My advice (and the advice of most creative people, I suspect) has always been:

Less modules and supplements--but spend more time and money making them better. Maybe they've decided to follow it.

They are subcontracting the modules rather than writing them themselves I believe.

 

[Zak S]

They are subcontracting the modules rather than writing them themselves I believe.

That doesn't really affect my point either way.

Someone is going to write it and that someone is either going to have more time and money than usual or not.

 

[Derren]

Wow, now the only way to be creative is to publish your stuff? That's just sad.

Ah, not the sharing type and keeping it all to yourself?
Still, what are you doing here anyway? Are you so averse to creativity that you need the D&D books to hold your hand in order to play an RPG?

Why would the D&D core books be exempted from your "Only uncreative people need books" verdict? And by the way, the OP never specified that he is talking only about adventures.

 

[Neonchameleon]

That doesn't really affect my point either way.

Someone is going to write it and that someone is either going to have more time and money than usual or not.

The initial Hoard of the Dragon Queen was ... not terribly good. And time and money aren't the only conditions - with subcontracting to multiple people you don't build up the expertise base. Money and time mostly add to the production values.

Ah, not the sharing type and keeping it all to yourself?

In my case, not the sort to wrestle with publishing (I've put a couple of games up on GDocs, although mostly large hacks - but not tried to actually get anything published and bound with art and full professional layout).

Still, what are you doing here anyway? Are you so averse to creativity that you need the D&D books to hold your hand in order to play an RPG?

What's the point in buying them if they don't help?

 

[Zak S]

The initial Hoard of the Dragon Queen was ... not terribly good. And time and money aren't the only conditions - with subcontracting to multiple people you don't build up the expertise base. Money and time mostly add to the production values.

With art and graphic design I can tell you 100% in every single case I have ever seen or ever worked on more time will get you a better product--and, unless you stumble backwards into a brand new undiscovered talent, more money will too.

I am not saying that WOTC will use it wisely, I am saying that it is simply possible.

 

[Derren]

What's the point in buying them if they don't help?

Well Hussar seems to be the opinion that everyone who needs "help" from books ("gently holding your hand" as he calls it) is not creative. But isn't that exactly what the core books do? He does not seem to have a problem with them considering that he likely owns them. And when the core books are, for some reason, not inhibiting creativity, why shouldn't this also apply to future supplements?

But its possible that he just dislikes certain kinds of "help" from the books. Giving exact magic item and monster stats is ok and not inhibiting creativity at all. Having a few paragraphs about castles and trade posts instead of just a list with a name and a price tag on the other hand kills creativity and criticising that such information is missing even though the rules specifically say that the PCs can buy those things and also providing a price tag is "forcing your playstyle on others"

 

[Neonchameleon]

With art and graphic design I can tell you 100% in every single case I have ever seen or ever worked on more time will get you a better product--and, unless you stumble backwards into a brand new undiscovered talent, more money will too.

I am not saying that WOTC will use it wisely, I am saying that it is simply possible.

A more polished product, certainly. Better proofed and better presented. And one with the sticking up nails hammered down. But the problems with Hoard of the Dragon Queen are structural - the railroad nature of the plot for one.

The other half of the equation is that I'm not sure where the extra money comes from unless adventures are loss-leaders.

 

[Zak S]

A more polished product, certainly. Better proofed and better presented. And one with the sticking up nails hammered down. But the problems with Hoard of the Dragon Queen are structural - the railroad nature of the plot for one.

Better writer or same writer with more time=more expensive=more possibilities written down=less railroady

The other half of the equation is that I'm not sure where the extra money comes from unless adventures are loss-leaders.

It's not complicated.

A monthly comic costs x dollars and takes y days to produce and sells for z dollars. A painted graphic novel can cost 2x dollars, take 2y days to produce and sell for 2z dollars.

You invest more in the people and the product, it costs more to produce, it sells for more because people are (at least theoretically willing to pay for quality).

It worked on Red & Pleasant Land.

 

[Fildrigar]

The initial Hoard of the Dragon Queen was ... not terribly good. And time and money aren't the only conditions - with subcontracting to multiple people you don't build up the expertise base. Money and time mostly add to the production values.

To be fair, ( And I hated the module, too. And the railroady-ness and structural problems aren't affected by this at all, so... ) Wizards has an almost two month lead time on production, so Kobold press probably had to turn in the final manuscript at the beginning of July. And probably had to do far too many last minute rewrites as rules changed. I didn't pick up Rise of Tiamat, but it got way better reviews than HotDQ.