Avoiding AoOs when using ranged weapons

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

As broad generalizations, in my play-experience, the problem with being an archer is that you can't crank out as much damage as a well-built melee fighter. Even with full attack actions and rapid shot, or skirmish dice, the total damage per round just doesn't add up to a power attacking fighter with a 2-handed sword or a dual-wielding ranger.

The advantage, of course, it that you can generally avoid melee attacks yourself by staying back from it.

I personally think if you want to allow a feat that prevents you from taking AoOs with ranged attacks, it's balanced. The ranged character is already looking at wanting Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Rapid Fire, Far Shot, Manyshot, Greater Manyshot, Improved Precise Shot, and maybe Shot on the Run. If you assume "Defensive Shot" requires Combat Shot as a prereg, there are 10 ranged-related feats. Taking one generally prevents you from getting one of the others unless you're a fighter or human ranger.

What I recommend -against- is a ranged version of Power Attack. I've allowed something similar (Head Shot) into my games in the past, and since decided it was a mistake and no longer allow it.

 

[Plane Sailing]

As broad generalizations, in my play-experience, the problem with being an archer is that you can't crank out as much damage as a well-built melee fighter. Even with full attack actions and rapid shot, or skirmish dice, the total damage per round just doesn't add up to a power attacking fighter with a 2-handed sword or a dual-wielding ranger.

In our game a fortnight ago our party was attacked by a huge, advanced half-dragon chimera. One of our half-dragon fighters was taken literally to deaths door, and the half-dragon psywar ran away, and the human ranger destroyed it in 2 melee rounds with his bow. It wasn't even his favoured enemy (you ought to seem him against humans with his human bane bow. It isn't funny).

Melee fighters face two big problems with full attacks. Firstly you don't get them as regularly, secondly big beasts are likely to full attack you right back and often do more damage than you do for a given CR (Giants and dragons especially). Spring Attack is vital in those circumstances, but even for those melee fighters who have it, they are back down to one attack a round while their archer friend is still rapid shotting away!

Cheers

 

[Seffbasilisk]

I understand the benifits to being able to go the whole battle without getting swiped at once, but to do that requires two feats (Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot) unless you want a -4 on each attack, you have to worry about cover, you don't deal nearly as much damage, and without arrowmind, you're pretty weak when they get in close.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I understand the benifits to being able to go the whole battle without getting swiped at once, but to do that requires two feats (Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot) unless you want a -4 on each attack, you have to worry about cover, you don't deal nearly as much damage, and without arrowmind, you're pretty weak when they get in close.

A trivial feat investment for anyone who is going to be an archer though, because PBS is the gateway to all the other good ones, and of course you are going to want precise shot (and rapid shot asap too!). Most archers are either fighters (with lots of feats) or rangers (with their virtual feats filling the gaps) - I've never seen a barbarian archer or paladin archer and rogue archers still find the feat investment worthwhile for ranged sneak attacks.

Cover isn't much of a worry, especially if you're just firing into combat, and them getting in close doesn't make much difference to you, because unless you're in highly restricted circumstances you can just take a 5ft step and full attack them in the face. I've seen lots of archers invest in tumble (cross class if necessary) so that if they get engaged in melee they can tumble away (and when they reach 6th+ level typically manyshot their foe from their new position of safety).

Cheers

 

[Owen K.C. Stephens]

In our game a fortnight ago our party was attacked by a huge, advanced half-dragon chimera.

Which, all things being equal, could have flown over to attack the archer just as easily as the melee fighters. In fact if it has room to fly, it may stay airbourne out of reach of melee fighters, and only attack the archer -- though by the time that's a reasonable foe the melee fighters may well be able to get flight one way or another.

 

[Darklone]

Archer vs THF fighter handwaving comparison:
Archer pros:
- One more attack thanks to Rapid Shot. Helps a lot with bows with extra elemental or bane damage.
- Always full attacks. In the few rare cases where you can't pit half a quiver into your enemies hide, use Manyshot for one shot less.
- in melee against enemies without reach: If the opponent doesn't sunder or disarm your bow, 5ft back and full attack without any problems. PBS really shines here as well for extra damage.
- Have you ever seen your groups archer kill the enemies wizard before that guy closes to fireball range with one surprpise action and one full attack action? No? Melee isn't the only way to waste wizards.

Archers contras:
- THF fighters dish out more damage due to Power attack.

Correct me if I am wrong, but IME the additional attack per Rapid shot, the bonus to hit thanks to PBS and the ability to use full attacks nearly all the time thanks to Rapid Shot and Manyshot easily trumps the Power attack advantage except for low AC enemies. And don't forget that most archers aren't weak or vulnerable in melee, only their bow is.

Now one question:
Get an archer with buckler, longbow and bastard sword (or longsword or battleaxe). At level 4 that dude has Power attack, Cleave and all mandatory archery feats. Where's the problem with having an archer who uses all thf schticks and perhaps even some sword&board tactics in melee?