Bad Faith and Sealioning

[Belen]

I have 2 inquiries then.

You have said ‘it’s not sea lioning if it’s not bad faith’.

Yet it’s nearly impossible to say whether someone is doing something in bad faith. So how would it be determined whatever reported sea lioning behavior was bad faith?

Are you all really getting into the business of determining and moderating ‘bad faith’ in general, or is that only reserved for sea lioning?

The past advice from the mod team has typically been, if you think someone is acting in bad faith then ignore them.

The mods at ENWord have always been pretty good. I may not always agree with them but trust that when they step in that they are seeking to cool things down.

I have never reported anyone but I think they must go nuts trying to adjudicate folks that use it.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I have never reported anyone but I think they must go nuts trying to adjudicate folks that use it.

Most of my reports are in the form of a question ("Have you seen this?") and an impression ("This kind of looks like X to me.") operating on the idea with a forum this size and 2-3 moderators, its easy to miss. If there's no response, I just shrug and move on.

Basically, I'm not going to irately go "Why aren't you doing something about this?" when the answer could be "We didn't see it" or "We don't see it as you do."

 

[Lanefan]

We’re not politicians. You’re not customers. You’re guests, [...]

The endless barrage of advertising kind of gives the opposite impression....

 

[The Sigil]

The endless barrage of advertising kind of gives the opposite impression....

It costs money to run a website, and I can’t imagine with all the traffic ENWorld gets it is cheap. I don’t begrudge the ads, as Morrus puts in plenty of sweat equity to make this place worth visiting.

I am NOT accusing you of this, but I should note I often see users complaining about site moderation as though they (the users) were owed something by the site. I myself have run sites, ad free, monetarily supported solely by me, where people seem to labor under the illusion that the sandbox I built, pay for, and maintain is somehow theirs to crap in and get indignant when I clean their crap out. And then get more indignant when I ask them to please stop using my sandbox as their toilet. Never have figured out why some people seem to derive joy out of making sure others can’t have nice things.

Most moderation here seems to be of the picking up of crap variety. We should all be mindful that we are invited guests, not co owners, and should treat both the site and its mods with respect for the work done in creating a space we enjoy. These places don’t just stay pleasant on their own, it takes constant work. I highly recommend reading Designing for Evil as this says it much better than I can before complaining about moderation standards anywhere.

Forgive me if I was offended by your insinuation Morrus thinks of us as “product” and not “guests” but please be very thoughtful when throwing around those sorts of accusations here or anywhere else - except for very large for profit entities it is generally not the case.

 

[Morrus]

The endless barrage of advertising kind of gives the opposite impression....

I’m sure there are people out there who love it when their guests make snarky remarks about their decor. I am not one of those people.

 

[cranberry]

I'm not a fan of ads either, however it takes money to run a site, and ads are the easiest way to generate the needed $$ to cover the costs.

The alternative is donations, and people usually don't like that either.

 

[FrogReaver]

I'm not a fan of ads either, however it takes money to run a site, and ads are the easiest way to generate the needed $$ to cover the costs.

The alternative is donations, and people usually don't like that either.

My understanding was that the increase in ads was to cover far more than the running of the site. Not that anything is wrong with that of itself either.

 

[Belen]

The endless barrage of advertising kind of gives the opposite impression....

Whereas I am glad Russ has been able to operate this place for so long and I hope he makes a good living doing it.

 

[FrogReaver]

It costs money to run a website, and I can’t imagine with all the traffic ENWorld gets it is cheap. I don’t begrudge the ads, as Morrus puts in plenty of sweat equity to make this place worth visiting.

I think there’s a difference between enough ad money to cover costs and ad money that far exceeds costs. I don’t know for sure which way enworlds is and don’t expect I will have even leave the desire to ask. I’m just talking general principles here.

Not a single person has a problem with a site making enough ad money to cover costs.

But I think most people’s expectations change as ad money begins to far exceed costs. At some point this does start to seem more like you are a product than simply a guest.

I am NOT accusing you of this, but I should note I often see users complaining about site moderation as though they (the users) were owed something by the site. I myself have run sites, ad free, monetarily supported solely by me, where people seem to labor under the illusion that the sandbox I built, pay for, and maintain is somehow theirs to crap in and get indignant when I clean their crap out. And then get more indignant when I ask them to please stop using my sandbox as their toilet. Never have figured out why some people seem to derive joy out of making sure others can’t have nice things.

Again general principles, I think people just want to be treated fairly. I think everyone is owed that.

 

[Morrus]

My understanding was that the increase in ads was to cover far more than the running of the site. Not that anything is wrong with that of itself either.

Not that an explanation is owed, but even with the ads mitigating it this site does not make money. It’s subsidised by the other stuff I do, not the other way round—in other words I literally pay for it.

Which is why all you folks are my guests and on my dime. You ain’t customers. I’m paying for you to be here, not the other way round. Fortunately the publishing business is doing well enough that I can afford it.