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5E Bad Wrong Fun

Fauchard1520

Explorer
What sets off your personal “that’s bad-wrong-fun” alarm? PvP without a Session Zero agreement? Stealing form the party? Tacking a critical miss chance onto the system?

And from a more philosophical perspective: Do you think it’s possible for a group to enjoy that kind of bad-wrong-fun despite its downsides?

Comic for illustrative purposes.
 

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aco175

Hero
We have not had these problems in a looong time, there needs to be some sort of social agreement among the players. Today, the most problems come from one player wanting to take a side quest and dominate the night instead of just moving the story along. I end up giving 10 minutes and them going back to the main story. The rest of the players need their spotlight as well. Now the rest of the party could join in and the whole night becomes an improv without getting back to the story.

We have introduced the scouts to the game on a few occasions and it tends to break down to attacking each other before leaving the tavern.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
For me, conflict between party members. I have always viewed the game as a team sport, and when certain PCs start fighting and arguing with other PCs, that's no fun for me. PvP is straight out.

I'm currently in a campaign with Avernus, which seems to be an official promotion of said behavior with the way it's written, and I don't like it, storyline and "dark secrets" and "redemption paths" be darned. It causes arguments between friends and breaks down trust.
 

For me, conflict between party members. I have always viewed the game as a team sport, and when certain PCs start fighting and arguing with other PCs, that's no fun for me. PvP is straight out.

I'm currently in a campaign with Avernus, which seems to be an official promotion of said behavior with the way it's written, and I don't like it, storyline and "dark secrets" and "redemption paths" be darned. It causes arguments between friends and breaks down trust.
That is why I have no intention of playing Avernus. The Companion, in my FR, is a force for good. Not what the official campaign made it to be. I'll have to make major rewrite for Avernus to fit into my campaign. Though I did like to read it. It won't be played as is.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen
I mean, if everyone at the table is having fun, I don’t care. I think doing anything that has a high risk of upsetting players - PvP, exploring certain sensitive subject matter, etc. without establishing that everyone is onboard ahead of time is an unnecessary risk. But if you took that risk and it turns out everyone in the group actually does enjoy it? mazel tov, I guess.
 

Oofta

Title? I don't need no stinkin' title.
I know some groups may enjoy PvP and/or having disruptive characters but it doesn't work well in my experience. That guy who runs the disruptive PC because their favorite Anime character is an ass? Yeah, he's just annoying to the rest of the group and comes across as an attention grabbing prima-donna.

So I make it clear that everyone should expect to be part of a team, don't play a complete loner, don't go out of your way to create conflict. I don't expect PCs to always link arms and sing kum-ba-yah, but I've also played games when one guy played an obnoxious a-hole. It was just annoying. He had fun, most of the rest of the group (including the DM) did not after a while. The campaign was at a conclusion when it came to a head and we stuck together for "one last fight" but if it had not been, most of the group was ready to kick the disruptive PC out. I can't imagine that would have ended well for the players.

As far as the OP's example, it shouldn't matter if the person stealing from a PC is a fellow PC or not. If the PC getting robbed would attack the thief or seek to get them arrested then it should happen.
 

jmartkdr2

Adventurer
Protip, for both players and dms: your lovable wangrod character isn't lovable - they're just a wangrod.

Other than that, when you see people saying "don't do the thing" on a forum, it's usually because they did the thing, and it was a bad time, and they don't want you to have a bad time, so they highly recommend you not do the thing. Please take this in that vein - it's a suggestion, often form experience. If you're certain that your group won't have the same experience, rock on, but you've been warned.
 

Arguing too much at the table. I really like @iserith recommendations on how to keep play moving at the table. Anything more than 10 minutes of planning and it starts to grind my gears.

Negative Metagaming. I really hate @iserith position on what characters can know. It bends my immersion over a table and violates it mightily, but I do understand and respect his viewpoint.
 
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Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
What sets off your personal “that’s bad-wrong-fun” alarm? PvP without a Session Zero agreement?
In general, infringing on another player's boundaries without prior consent is badwrongfun.

And if your focus is on the group having fun, when someone is being made distinctly unhappy, then you are at risk of being the wangrod yoruself.
 
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P v P stuff that hasn’t been agreed to. For example if the lovable rogue likes to take “baubles” from party members and cause pranks, and everyone is fine with it...then game on.

If the rogue is taking real money from party members...not ok
 


iserith

Magic Wordsmith
Whatever other people do in their games is no business of mine.

If I join a new group, I have two main criteria for whether I will keep playing with them. (1) The game must be funny. (2) The game must be productive. If those two things are true, then I'm in and I don't particularly care how we get there (within reason).
 

jayoungr

Hero
Supporter
I run for two different groups who have diametrically opposed ideas on things like charm and other forms of mind control.

For one group, it's an absolute "Don't go there." They see it as one of the worst possible sins a game or gamemaster could commit.

The other group is much more open to the idea, even though it still has to be done right.
 

Burnside

Space Jam Confirmed
None of these really happen all that much, but have happened and I didn't like it:

  • Characters who don't want to go on adventures. Meet the DM half way.
  • Characters who are uninterested in working as part of a group. Meet the DM and your fellow players half way.
  • Player not paying attention
  • DM wants to use lingering injuries
  • DM wants to have players accidentally hit each other with low attack rolls
  • DM wants to play 5E but doesn't want to use short rest healing rules

And this one happens frequently and is a completely irrational one on my part, but:

- The word "module". It's a non-fun word to begin with; one that makes me feel like I'm about to complete a classroom exercise rather than go on an adventure. Also, it hasn't been used officially for any product since 1999. Twenty years. If you use it, I know you're an OLD MAN. OLD!
 

Warpiglet-7

Explorer
None of these really happen all that much, but:

  • Characters who don't want to go on adventures. Meet the DM half way.
  • Characters who are uninterested in working as part of a group. Meet the DM and your fellow players half way.
  • Player not paying attention

And this one happens frequently and is a completely irrational one on my part, but:

- The word "module". It's a non-fun word to begin with; one that makes me feel like I'm about to complete a classroom exercise rather than go on an adventure. Also, it hasn't been used officially for any product since 1999. Twenty years. If you use it, I know you're an OLD MAN. OLD!
I have to second your pet peeves. One guy has no interest in anything so the whole time we drag him along (ugh).
Now if you will excuse me I am going to look through all the modules” In yawning Portal!
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
I'm currently in a campaign with Avernus, which seems to be an official promotion of said behavior with the way it's written, and I don't like it, storyline and "dark secrets" and "redemption paths" be darned.
I don't know how Avernus is written. Perhaps their either forgot, or did not properly communicate to GMs and players: There is pretty much only one real purpose for secrets in a role-playing game - to be uncovered!

Players whose characters have secrets shouldn't be looking to keep them secret forever Where's the fun in that? Keeping your secret until it is cool and dramatic for it to be revealed - now that's some dramatic fun! And that's where the group has to have an understandign when play begins, especially with a game like that. Everyone's got secrets. The cool part is letting them get out in interesting ways for folks to play with them. If everyone's got secrets, and you're getting upset that yours was discovered, you went in with an attitude doomed for disappointment.
 

Sacrosanct

Legend
I don't know how Avernus is written. Perhaps their either forgot, or did not properly communicate to GMs and players: There is pretty much only one real purpose for secrets in a role-playing game - to be uncovered!

Players whose characters have secrets shouldn't be looking to keep them secret forever Where's the fun in that? Keeping your secret until it is cool and dramatic for it to be revealed - now that's some dramatic fun! And that's where the group has to have an understandign when play begins, especially with a game like that. Everyone's got secrets. The cool part is letting them get out in interesting ways for folks to play with them. If everyone's got secrets, and you're getting upset that yours was discovered, you went in with an attitude doomed for disappointment.
It's not that at all. The campaign seems to be designed to foster inter party conflict as a goal, with an end game intention of finding redemption in the end.

SPOILER

For example, a PC being influenced by the pit fiend shield, turning them lawful evil and against their own party. Or how Avernus in general turns players evil.

the end game might want to focus on redemption, but all of those sessions in between then where the party is fighting and arguing based on in-game intentionally designed features of the campaign, that's a problem for me, and I don't like it. I don't care if the end results in redemption if 90% of the actual game play is arguing and plotting against each other.
 


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