Balance For Irresistable Damage?

[FireLance]

Inspired by the recent thread on the orb spells.

Assume the following spell exists:

Irresistable Damage
Conjuration [Creation]
Level: Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You surround your target with deadly energy, dealing it _____.

In order of this spell to be balanced, how much damage should it deal, and what are your reasons for your choice?

 

[James McMurray]

What level cap are you thinking of?

 

[FireLance]

What level cap are you thinking of?

15 dice.

 

[James McMurray]

I voted d3. Unfortunately that makes the spell not worth using the vast majority of the time, but bumping it to d4 is too much IMO.

 

[MatthewJHanson]

I'd probably actually say 1d6/two levels, but chose 1d3/level because that was the closest.

 

[Corsair]

I'd probably actually say 1d6/two levels, but chose 1d3/level because that was the closest.

I don't like it at all, just from a concept standpoint. At least the Orbs (and their psionic kid-sister, crystal shard) require an attack roll, thus making them victim to blur, displacement, etc.

 

[Evilhalfling]

I don't like it at all, just from a concept standpoint. At least the Orbs (and their psionic kid-sister, crystal shard) require an attack roll, thus making them victim to blur, displacement, etc.

Thanks to errata in the Complete Psion - the crystal shard spells now have to plow through DR, making it less irresistible.

 

[Stalker0]

Okay, here's how I'd see it.

If you take your common fireball, for the vast majority of creatures, they will take half damage on their reflex save. So a 10th level fireball does 35 avg damage, 17.5 could be considered "irresistable" (as far as saves go). This is also the average damage of magic missile.

Now, this spell negates SR and resistances. However, its also much closer range, single target, and a level higher. If we consider all these +'s and -'s to cancel out, then a spell that consistently does 17.5 damage would be okay in my book. This puts it in the same ballgame as magic missile for damage (which is often irresitable to many creatures) but takes it to the extreme. No shield spell, no SR, no globe of invulnerability will help you, you just take it.

 

[Someone]

I'd probably actually say 1d6/two levels, but chose 1d3/level because that was the closest.

Same for me.

 

[Corsair]

Thanks to errata in the Complete Psion - the crystal shard spells now have to plow through DR, making it less irresistible.

I don't consider that errata, so much as a clarification. It seems silly that you could both get the "but it's created/conjured so it isn't subject to PR/SR!" argument AND the "but it's magic so it ignores DR!" argument. You pretty much need to pick one or the other. Even before CPsi came out, our group had it being subject to DR as it was not energy damage. (Ditto for the bludgeoning damage from ice storm)