Balance implications of Cheaper Multiclassing?

[Marshall]

I think you are being a little hard on Multiclassing in general, and Paragon Multiclassing specifically.

Multiclassing? No. In fact, my base assumption is that every character will have some form of MC feat. They are too good to pass up.

With any feat, you spend the feat, and you get a benefit. With the Multiclass feats, that benefit is to pick a power from your chosen class. Any power. Every time you gain new powers. The power you pick is likely to be the stand out favorite for that class. Too many examples to list them all, but a Str based Melee fighter will almost never go wrong taking Come and Get it. This is an *increase* in power for them, as it is likely better than any other option. So, like any other feat, you spend the feat, you gain some power.

Not true. Aside from the fact that the "stand out favorite" of Class B may or may not be on par with the "stand out favorite" for Class A you are still spending a feat slot that could enhance ALL your powers instead of just one.

You could also spend all your feats on Skill Focus. This doesn't mean that every person that multiclases extensively is making bad choices.

There are only three Multiclass feats. You have to take all three to PMC, you have to take all three in Heroic tier to qualify at 11 for PMC.

The odds that any multiclass will have one of each power type Daily, Utility, Encounter, that is better than your base class at 4th, 8th, and 10th is Nil. The options to make that useful arent there yet. You're already behind the curve and you've just hit 11th level where you start losing more options. Down three feats already, remember?

With paragon multiclassing, you really do give up some things. You give up a paragon path and it's AP riders, powers, and extra abilities. In exchange, you get the same number of powers back (kind of a null trade there) and you can train in an at-will from your multiclass. The at-will is not as good as the stuff you are giving up, the PP abilities and whatnot. But that doesn't mean that you are garbage, and less effective than other characters. Again, there are many options for multiclassing that are stand out winners (Fighter/Wizard, Ranger/Barbarian, etc), but in the end it is the player's choice. If the character concept works for you, and you are not intentionally gimping your character, Paragon Multiclassing is a valid choice.

The power selection are equal in number, but not in quality. Yes, there are poor PP options also.
Fighter/Wizard?? No way, conflicting primary abilities. The only place you can find a PMC that approaches parity is classes with shared primary stats.

Whose better off? A player that has a concept of a FTR/WIZ and PMCs to get there or a player that has a concept of a FTR/WIZ and use Spiral Tower(or similar PP) to get there? Same concept, useful execution.

 

[keterys]

Now that there are feats like the one that lets a PMC Sorc add their stat to damage with all arcane spells, PMCs are a lot more favorable.

I well imagine you could design a decent warlock/sorcerer PMC for instance.

Vault the Fallen (lvl _1_ barbarian) is better than most paragon path encounter powers. Ditto Come and Get It. Having to take a level 7 encounter power from a class is hardly any guarantee it's worse than a paragon path's choice. Getting an extra barbarian daily is quite handy since being in a rage enhances many things.

So, PMCing ranger, barbarian, and sorcerer look viable options already. I imagine there are even more if one looks well.

But, PMC won't be for most. It's not for me. But designed well, it's totally playable. More playable than most feylocks, pre-DP paladins, etc, for instance

 

[Dr_Sage]

This could go into the House Rules area, but I'd like to ponder the balance of multiclassing for a bit.

As I mentioned in another thread, I'm re-reading the 4e FR stuff (and being pleasantly surprised it's better than I remember!) I love the idea of the Spellscarred multiclass, but as I've gotten more and more experience with 4e, I've started to wonder... Is multiclassing just way too expensive? The recent article on Skill Powers kind of added to the questions.

As it stands, in order to multiclass, I need to...

(1) Spend a "starter" feat that makes me a member of this class,
(2) Spend individual feats for every Power I want to swap,
(3) Give up a Power for every Power I swap.

And I guess I'm wondering if, so long as the limit of 1 Encounter, 1 Daily, and 1 Utility are kept, why the additional Feats should be necessary?

So I open this up to you, Rules-Monkeys. If swapping powers were cheaper, what sorts of fire and brimstone would rain down?

-O

In my opinion some cases would be harmless, but in may ones the synergy of diferent classes may increase the power.

Basic example is the fighter with the wizard area attacks...

Regards,

Sage

 

[keterys]

Fighters with paladin sanction abilities are interesting too, since they not only damage via the sanction, but also get their normal mark benefits.

I actually think fighter/wizard is highly overrated since Int is not so great for fighters and juggling implements, bah, but cleric? Sure. The implement doesn't take a spot, there are some good Str-based options (like Divine Power at 9th or Shield of the Gods at 1st), and Wis is a fighter secondary.