Balance: per Encounter vs per Day

[Musrum]

What are the pros for keeping the system balanced per day?

As a player I am frustrated when I play an 'endurance' class (skill monkey or warrior) and have to endure 1 or 2 encounters of playing an 'extra' in combat and then have the magical 'star' insist on retiring to their caravan.

The antagonists are almost always fully loaded up for any combat encounter, so wouldn’t it be easier to design the system balance at the encounter level?

The only thing you miss out on is the slow, flat death spiral of depleted resources.

 

[Nonlethal Force]

Personally, I prefer to game as a group than an individual. What this means is that when the spellcaster is low on spells, the party is low on resources. If the spellcaster needs to rest, we do. If the fighter is low on hitpoints and we need to seek out a temple because the cleric spent his spells on other stuff already, then we detour and find a temple.

Some days when I play a skill guy alot of things go my way and the casters/fighters don't get to show their stuff. Other days its all about them. In the long run - though - I don't enjoy games when it is me or them. I enjoy games where it is us.

So, to answer your question ... I think the system is fine. The party can go on until it can't go on any more. When they need a legitimate rest, they should rest. But that's just how I feel.

 

[Glyfair]

Personally, I prefer to game as a group than an individual. What this means is that when the spellcaster is low on spells, the party is low on resources. If the spellcaster needs to rest, we do. If the fighter is low on hitpoints and we need to seek out a temple because the cleric spent his spells on other stuff already, then we detour and find a temple.

I don't think he's saying it's a player issue. Of course the group will rest to regain spells if they can and succeed. Saying "press on" when there is no reason to for a PC is silly.

I think it's a DM issue. If the DM doesn't give the players a reason not to rest, they will. If the endurance characters need a chance to shine, then the DM needs to create scenarios where the characters can't rest (at least and be successful).

Are the characters never attacked in dangerous territory when retreating to town? Are there never time specific missions (the gate will open in 2 hours if you don't find and defeat the evil wizard? Do the enemies never press the attack when they hurt the heroes, and just allow them to go back, regroup and attack again?

 

[Musrum]

Personally, I prefer to game as a group than an individual. What this means is that when the spellcaster is low on spells, the party is low on resources. If the spellcaster needs to rest, we do. If the fighter is low on hitpoints and we need to seek out a temple because the cleric spent his spells on other stuff already, then we detour and find a temple.

Some days when I play a skill guy alot of things go my way and the casters/fighters don't get to show their stuff. Other days its all about them. In the long run - though - I don't enjoy games when it is me or them. I enjoy games where it is us.

So, to answer your question ... I think the system is fine. The party can go on until it can't go on any more. When they need a legitimate rest, they should rest. But that's just how I feel.

Of course the easiest thing to change is your attitude. But then that should be the patch of last resort.

Even so, we are still left with a system that has underlying assumptions (4 encounters per day) that can be easily circumvented.

I don’t see how having a system balanced per encounter would hinder team play.

And from a narative point of view I don't see running back to base at mid-morning as "legitimate rest"

 

[Stalker0]

While I think a balanced system around encounters is better, it may be harder to obtain.

Resource management over the course of the day gives a game designer a lot to work with. Spells, no matter how powerful, are limited in their total use across an entire day.

When you take that away, you have less freedom to work with, meaning you would probably have to great decrease a casters power in order to balance it. This also messes with spells that are used out of combat, like stone shape or control weather. What defines an encounter?

 

[Musrum]

While I think a balanced system around encounters is better, it may be harder to obtain.

Resource management over the course of the day gives a game designer a lot to work with. Spells, no matter how powerful, are limited in their total use across an entire day.

When you take that away, you have less freedom to work with, meaning you would probably have to great decrease a casters power in order to balance it. This also messes with spells that are used out of combat, like stone shape or control weather. What defines an encounter?

You are right. It would require a major rework of most of the game elements (4E?).

You could define combat casting around a "Arcane/Divine Focus" concept, and so an Encounter is defined by the player.

The obvious resource for out-of-combat casting would be time, with 10 min being a typical casting time.

 

[pawsplay]

Making it by encounter would remove the ability to gauge resource use on a less than "right now" basis. On the other hand, if uses are measured by a certain period of time, the GM is free to rule on the fly when abilities are available. In my view, making abilities "per encounter" only removes options.

Also, "encounter" is a devil to define.

 

[KarinsDad]

There are several solutions to the problem that I see:

1) Divine Cohorts.
2) Cure boosts by the Divine casters (such as Augment Healing)
3) Party Wands/Staves of Curing
4) Party boosts of AC
5) Party buffs of Temporary Hit Points pre-combat

Arcane casters rarely run out of spells once they get to mid-levels.

It is the Divine casters who run out of Cure or Heal (or even various Remove X or Restoration) spells.


Once the party significantly boosts up the number of Cure/Heal spells that can be generated per day, there is no real reason to rest up early anymore. Most casters can easily go 6, 8, or even more encounters then. IME.

 

[Musrum]

Also, "encounter" is a devil to define.

But then so is "day". Or to be more precise: the pratical definition of "day" which can be anything from "10 min after breakfast " to "never ending" (overnight harrasment of spellcasters - no rest, no spells, death)

 

[pawsplay]

To me, a day is 24 hours. As far as spell recovery goes, it's after a good night's sleep, but no more often than 24 hours. No trickiness there.

But I have had players ask me before if we're still in initiative.