Balance problems with Complete Warrior base classes?

[ruleslawyer]

My opinion is that the new base classes in Complete Warrior are fine. Very balanced. If anything, the 3.5 Fighter, Paladin, and Ranger are better then these base classes.

Isn't that a balance problem? I've never heard people complaining that the 3.5 fighter-types were overpowered...

 

[MerricB]

Isn't that a balance problem? I've never heard people complaining that the 3.5 fighter-types were overpowered...

My view of it is that the new classes are more specialised than the normal fighter, not less powerful.

The samurai is interesting in that it gains a lot of skill in two-weapon fighting, but doesn't require the 15 Dexterity that feat tree normally requires. As a result, you get a two-weapon fighter who can have a low Dexterity and instead concentration on the Strength and Charisma that are the primary abilities required by the class.

The impression that a standard fighter could easily become a samurai is thus false; there is a subtlety as to how it works which makes it an outstanding class, in my opinion.

Cheers!

 

[Endur]

I am of the view that its not a balance problem for Samurai/Swashbuckler/Hexblade to be slightly less powerful than a Fighter/Ranger/Paladin. In exchange for a slightly less powerful character, you get a character that is very useful (i.e. specialized) for a particular circumstance.

The Swashbuckler is meant for a shipboard pirates game(i.e. Errol Flynn). If you are playing ship board pirates, the Swashbuckler is definitelly better than the Fighter. Anywhere else, the Fighter or Ranger class is going to be better. The Samurai is intended for an oriental campaign. etc.

So long as new material (classes, etc.) are less powerful or comparable to the PHB classes, play balance is fine. Play balance is destroyed when new classes are more powerful than the existing classes.

Isn't that a balance problem? I've never heard people complaining that the 3.5 fighter-types were overpowered...

 

[MarauderX]

So long as new material (classes, etc.) are less powerful or comparable to the PHB classes, play balance is fine. Play balance is destroyed when new classes are more powerful than the existing classes.

I agree. I was wondering mostly about 5+ levels getting out of control when cross-classed or other means. I would hate to have the game be 'out-of-balance' with a character from the book, so I have been debating limiting the class or not. So far as a straight class it seems to me to be comparable to a specialized fighter or strange paladin, but again I am worried that in the higher levels it could be coupled with other classes, items, feats or abilities that would really make it accel above the others.
Thanks for the input so far. Presently I don't see any problem with it and I think I will allow it if the player is still interested, as it could definitely fit in my homebrew.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Yeah, the CW Samurai IMHO doesn't need to be a seperate class...better a PrC or feat chain or both....but as it is, it's not unbalanced, just....badly rationalized.

 

[Darklone]

Isn't that a balance problem? I've never heard people complaining that the 3.5 fighter-types were overpowered...

Not? There are as many complaining about the poor wizards who are much weaker than melee monsters as we have threads about the poor fighters who are much weaker than the mighty spellslingers...

 

[Liquidsabre]

Not? There are as many complaining about the poor wizards who are much weaker than melee monsters as we have threads about the poor fighters who are much weaker than the mighty spellslingers...

Heh, if that doesn't say balance I don't know what does lol.

But I have one 4th lvl swashbuckler that went the Improved Trip route, with a high intelligence and moderate str he holds his own as far as damage dealing goes though his AC is lacking, this he makes up with better skills (i.e. more useful in other pursuits) and a rather flamboyant (read:fun) fighting style.

I also run a Forgotten Realms Pirate game and forsee the swashbuckler doing great things as the bucking deck of ship at sea is hardly the place for an armored fighter and all those skill points in class skills such as balance make all the difference.

 

[Felon]

The design idea behind the swashbuckler - it's primarily a fighter, so no good Reflex saves, etc. - is a very interesting one.

No, that's just lame.

 

[green slime]

IMO, frontline fighters without a decent Fortitude save suck. Reflex saves just save you a few hp, which a frontliner should have buckets of anyway. Fortitude saves do nasty things to you if you fail: Poison, Disease, Stunning fist. There is more, but these three things are common enough for frontliners to run into that Fortitude is required (IMNSHO) by all frontliner base classes. Because lets face it, a Str-poisoned fighter is basically useless, all of a sudden he can barely move, nevermind fight.

 

[Felon]

Well, sorry if the fluff gets in the way of the crunch, but here's the deal: Swashbucklers are, first and foremost, nimble. In fact, that's pretty much the quality that defines the class as something other than just a customized Fighter. If that means they get a good Reflex save and a good Fort save, maybe even at the cost of a lower hit die, then so be it I say.