Baldman Games & WotC On All Access Issues At Gen Con

There were a lot of complaints about the D&D All Access gaming at Gen Con this year. Charles Akins over at Dyvers Campaign has a great summary, so I won't repeat it here - but if you're interested, check that out. WotC and Baldman Games (who run the D&D events at Gen Con) appear to have heard those complaints, because they are taking action to address them - to the extent that they're giving All Access badge holders a free copy of the upcoming hardcover Out of the Abyss, and a free copy of Sword Coast Legends video game!

You need to fill out a form to get your goodies.

"I first want to thank everyone for the excellent feedback so far. We are gathering comments and discussing ways to improve all Baldman Games’ offerings going forward. We will have further posts this Fall asking for more specific feedback.

Baldman Games and Wizards of the Coast realize that we did not meet your expectations with our All-Access Program at Gen Con this year. The way production schedules lined up, it was difficult for us to provide the new products that had been offered in previous years. But have no fear! We want to make things right. We value your support of D&D and our programs at Gen Con and other shows. To that end, we have some stuff to offer to everyone who played in the All-Access program at Gen Con 2015.

Here’s what you’ll get:

One hard copy of Out of the Abyss, the TRPG adventure in the Rage of Demons story, before it hits store shelves, mailed directly to you
One code for a digital copy of Sword Coast Legends, the party-based RPG coming out on PC, Mac and Linux, on September 29th, sent to the email you provide.

If you are an All-Access player from Gen Con, please make sure to fill in the form below completely. The information provided will only be used to ship the book to you, send the code, and/or contact you if we have a problem doing so. It will be destroyed once shipping is completed.

Once again, we apologize for not meeting the expectations of the program this year, and we will work hard in the coming months to build a bigger, stronger, and more transparent program in 2016 and beyond.

David Christ
Baldman Games"

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Did folks who paid more receive this this year?

I wasn't there, but from what I hear, yes. They got their dedicated DMs and games at All-Access Pass tables had only 6 players instead of 7 at every other table. I was told that although there was an area dedicated to All-Access tables, it wasn't roped off with velvet ropes like it was last year. It's just all the tables were lumped together.

 

[Mark CMG]

I wasn't there, but from what I hear, yes. They got their dedicated DMs and games at All-Access Pass tables had only 6 players instead of 7 at every other table. I was told that although there was an area dedicated to All-Access tables, it wasn't roped off with velvet ropes like it was last year. It's just all the tables were lumped together.

Well, that's worth something too. I'd still want some sort of refund for what wasn't delivered but I wouldn't expect the full $110 refund. My previous post was going off the post above that said they weren't given more than that received by the $40 players. I'd be more inclined to accept a lesser refund in this case.

 

[Jester David]

So, why not give the "small percentage of fans" the $110 dollars back? The organizers have clearly made it known that they are aware of the problem and are seeking to compensate those who were overcharged. If I was a customer who was in this situation, I'd expect no less than the $110 refund. If they wanted to do more than that, they might also avoid potentially losing my future commerce.

Likely because they *don't have that money*. I imagine they used it to either subsidize the cost of everyone else's play space and/or paid for hotel space for DMs/ volunteers/ staff. It's not like they kept the difference in a big pile.
I doubt Baldman games has so much capital tagged they have the thousands of dollars just sitting around to start issuing refunds.

 

[Mark CMG]

Likely because they *don't have that money*. I imagine they used it to either subsidize the cost of everyone else's play space and/or paid for hotel space for DMs/ volunteers/ staff. It's not like they kept the difference in a big pile.
I doubt Baldman games has so much capital tagged they have the thousands of dollars just sitting around to start issuing refunds.

That's a big problem then. But if it is a "small percentage of fans," as you say, then I am sure they can manage it if needs be.

 

[Jester David]

That's a big problem then. But if it is a "small percentage of fans," as you say, then I am sure they can manage it if needs be.

I meant the people who got the All-access pass was a small percentage of the fanbase, not that a small percentage were upset or would ask for a refund.

There are millions of gamers in the world. Only 8000+ people played D&D at GenCon. A few hundred got the All-Access pass. Of the total percentage of gamers, the people who paid the all-access price are a small, small minority of the overall population of gamers. Less than 0.01%. The point was that the companies *could* have completely ignore those fan's complaints pretty easily, and still managed to sell all their all-access tickets next year. The point was that Baldman games, let alone WotC, didn't have to do anything in response to the outrage. Their reaction could easily have been "oh well, you paid the price, caveat emptor bitches." Especially WotC who had little involvement in the process.

It's not like the value : cost ratio was some hidden thing. They knew the price when buying the ticket. It was right there. The people saw what was offered and made the choice the purchase anyway. Just like people did last year. They had to decide whether the bonus of a dedicated DM and firm table of players and maybe some small perk was worth the cost. And each of them decided to pay the extra price.
For me, this is less idle speculation. I went to GenCon last year. I looked at getting the All-Access price. And I decided that, for me, the cost was not worth it. Even thought I would have loved that early Monster Manual. The uncertainty and cost was too much, so I made the decision. Other people were willing and I don't fault them their bonus book. We all make our own decisions and choices.

Sure, after last year, people might have been expecting a free copy of a book or two. But that's not guaranteed. It didn't say that on the ticket. You can't blame the company and ask for a refund because you speculated wrong.

As for refunds, Baldman Games is a small company. Organization might be a better term. It's not like they sell products or have a ready supply of cash. I doubt it's even the full-time job of all of its members. If just half of the all-access pass people demanded a refund and were provided with one that'd be something like $15,000. That's bankruptcy territory right there. Heck, even the $7,500 of 25% of people demanding a refund would likely cripple Baldman Games.

 

[Mark CMG]

I meant the people who got the All-access pass was a small percentage of the fanbase, not that a small percentage were upset or would ask for a refund.

There are millions of gamers in the world. Only 8000+ people played D&D at GenCon. A few hundred got the All-Access pass. Of the total percentage of gamers, the people who paid the all-access price are a small, small minority of the overall population of gamers. Less than 0.01%. The point was that the companies *could* have completely ignore those fan's complaints pretty easily, and still managed to sell all their all-access tickets next year. The point was that Baldman games, let alone WotC, didn't have to do anything in response to the outrage. Their reaction could easily have been "oh well, you paid the price, caveat emptor bitches." Especially WotC who had little involvement in the process.

It's not like the value : cost ratio was some hidden thing. They knew the price when buying the ticket. It was right there. The people saw what was offered and made the choice the purchase anyway. Just like people did last year. They had to decide whether the bonus of a dedicated DM and firm table of players and maybe some small perk was worth the cost. And each of them decided to pay the extra price.
For me, this is less idle speculation. I went to GenCon last year. I looked at getting the All-Access price. And I decided that, for me, the cost was not worth it. Even thought I would have loved that early Monster Manual. The uncertainty and cost was too much, so I made the decision. Other people were willing and I don't fault them their bonus book. We all make our own decisions and choices.

Sure, after last year, people might have been expecting a free copy of a book or two. But that's not guaranteed. It didn't say that on the ticket. You can't blame the company and ask for a refund because you speculated wrong.

As for refunds, Baldman Games is a small company. Organization might be a better term. It's not like they sell products or have a ready supply of cash. I doubt it's even the full-time job of all of its members. If just half of the all-access pass people demanded a refund and were provided with one that'd be something like $15,000. That's bankruptcy territory right there. Heck, even the $7,500 of 25% of people demanding a refund would likely cripple Baldman Games.

So, in your opinion, it's a small enough portion of the fanbase that it won't matter if they don't get refunded for what they didn't receive but it is a large enough number of people that refunding their money isn't going to happen. So, best of both worlds if you received the money but not good for those who didn't get what they paid to get. Got it.

 

[Jester David]

So, in your opinion, it's a small enough portion of the fanbase that it won't matter if they don't get refunded for what they didn't receive but it is a large enough number of people that refunding their money isn't going to happen. So, best of both worlds if you received the money but not good for those who didn't get what they paid to get. Got it.

There's no need for that tone or to be so dismissive. If you're not interested in a polite discussion than neither am I and will take my conversations elsewhere (and, of course, remember to eschew purchasing anything from Creative Mountain Games).

But, yes, while sarcastic your summary seems correct. It's a small enough portion of the fanbase that ignoring them will not negatively impact WotC or even Baldman games. However, the amount of money involved per person means a refund is not possible, not for a small company like Baldman games.

And the gamers got what they paid for! They got a dedicated DM with a set group and a small mystery prize. That's what they paid for. It's the value of the mystery that's in question, especially compared to last year.
The best way to look at it is paying three times the cost for each game for a "premium" game experience, and anything extra is a bonus. If that's worthwhile then pay away. If that's not, then don't pay and stick with the regular games. But if it doesn't seem worthwhile you don't pay anyway and then complain about the value.
Really, it's like buying a Loot Crate and being disappointed by the contents.

 

[Corpsetaker]

mes).

But, yes, while sarcastic your summary seems correct. It's a small enough portion of the fanbase that ignoring them will not negatively impact WotC or even Baldman games. However, the amount of money involved per person means a refund is not possible, not for a small company like Baldman games.

Going to have to disagree with you wholeheartedly.

Gen Con is probably the most famous convention when it comes to gaming and when things go bad there it spreads. Don't forget we live in the age of social media so a lot of those people probably had stuff posted on Facebook which in turn get's posted to their friends and their friends friends etc....

Nowadays you don't want to brush off a significant amount of people.

 

[Mark CMG]

(. . .) your summary seems correct. It's a small enough portion of the fanbase that ignoring them will not negatively impact WotC or even Baldman games. However, the amount of money involved per person means a refund is not possible, not for a small company like Baldman games.

Thanks for the acknowledgment. That's your opinion and one not shared by everyone. It's an incredibly rude way to treat customers. However, you apparently have different standards.

And the gamers got what they paid for!

That seems disingenuous. If they got what they paid for, then there would be no need for complaints and no need for the gesture of recompense. You praise the gesture on the one hand while on the other adamantly refusing that the customers have any reason to require that recompense.

(. . .) and, of course, remember to eschew purchasing anything from Creative Mountain Games

That's too bad. Also, let me know if you've had any problem with past products not being as promised so I can send you a refun- Wait. Never mind. I know how you feel about that sort of thing.

 

[Jester David]

Going to have to disagree with you wholeheartedly.

Gen Con is probably the most famous convention when it comes to gaming and when things go bad there it spreads. Don't forget we live in the age of social media so a lot of those people probably had stuff posted on Facebook which in turn get's posted to their friends and their friends friends etc....

Nowadays you don't want to brush off a significant amount of people.

Take a look at http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2808-How-Much-Gaming-Took-Place-At-Gen-Con#.VcZCovlVhBc versus http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2800-Gen-Con-Has-Doubled-In-Size-Since-2010

61,423 people were at GenCon but only 8,807 played D&D. That's 14.34% of GenConners. Of that <15%, maybe a few hundred were upset. So 5% of 14% of the people who attended the Con were seriously unhappy. 90% of the D&D players who attended were likely happy and going to be spreading positive word of mouth. That's going to have much more impact than the complaining.

Now, keep in mind that the vast, vast majority of gamers don't go to GenCon. Again, D&D racked up almost 9,000 people, but the PHB sold to hundreds of thousands of people and there are millions of gamers out there.
Heck, a large percentage of D&D fans don't even know of GenCon, let alone paid attention to the news. Lots of people happily buy the books and play but don't follow the game on Twitter or Facebook or visit ENWorld. They're not seriously invested in the hobby.
We have a very skewed perspective. We're the small percentage of super dedicated fans who go online and discuss the game, and are aware of the issue even if we didn't attend. We're an anomaly, and it's dangerous to forget that and think that our community is a representative sample of D&D as a whole. Which it really is not.

Thanks for the acknowledgment. That's your opinion and one not shared by everyone. It's an incredibly rude way to treat customers. However, you apparently have different standards.

Again with the insults.

*sigh* I don't disagree. It would be rude. But companies don't make money being polite. It would not be unheard of for companies to do just that, to shrug off the complaints with a "Sincerer apologies, we messed up, but we'll try harder next time and learn from this mistake". That wouldn't be an entirely unreasonable response.
However, I don't think it's reasonable to expect a company to put themselves out of business issuing refunds when they do not have to. Asking someone to choose to lose their means of employment and ruin their finances for the rest of their life because some poor customer service is harsh.

And, of course, they didn't. They found another way, and their licencing partner (and one of their partner's partners) stepped in and made things right. Which gets back to my original point: WotC did good here and went above and beyond. The point is that no one here had to do anything but they did anyway and tried to give people more than expected, more than just token reparations.

That seems disingenuous. If they got what they paid for, then there would be no need for complaints and no need for the gesture of recompense. You praise the gesture on the one hand while on the other adamantly refusing that the customers have any reason to require that recompense.

They got what they they were told they were paying for but not what they were expecting to pay for. There's a difference there. Basically, you're asking the company to offer recompense for inflated expectations.

Look at the site:
http://baldmangames.com/gen-con/

D&D Next All-Access Pass (Low Track): Enjoy the best we have to offer at the show, along with some cool unique perks, with one easy ticket. This track is for players with characters levels 1-4. You will participate in DDEX2-16, DDEP-2, DDEX3-2, and DDEP-3. Play times are Thursday noon-4pm, Thursday 8pm-Midnight, Friday noon-4pm, and Saturday 8pm-Midnight.​

That's what was advertised. That's what people accepted. And that's what was delivered.
The problem is NOT that the product wasn't what was advertised, the problem was that after last year, fans were expecting an early copy of an unreleased book. Which, likely because the convention was a half-a-month early, didn't happen.

That's too bad. Also, let me know if you've had any problem with past products not being as promised so I can send you a refun- Wait. Never mind. I know how you feel about that sort of thing.

If the product isn't defective, I don't ask for refunds. Heck, it's not like I haven't been scammed or purchased a product I regretted. But I stand by my mistakes.
If someone rips you off, you ask for a refund. If you rip yourself off with a foolish purchase, you only have yourself to blame. Learn a lesson for next time.