D&D 5E Barbarian 'Unarmored Defense'

[Pandamonium87]

One of my player made a barbarian character (he'll take the bear totem) all focused about being an unbeatable super-tank. He has (thanks to 4d6 method and a lot of luck...) the following stats

Str 14
Dex 16
Con 18
Int 10
Wis 13
Cha 10

He decided to use a shield and he has AC 19 at first level, the highest in the group. I think the purpose of this ability really depends on the type of character you want to play, but it gives you a solid option to create a tank barbarian.

 

[Andor]

Building a DEX/CON/CHA character that wears no armor and still gets top notch AC (high enough to be a frontline primary melee character) is thus impossible. (Where "impossible" means "without paying a steep cost")

Yet. Let's hope for splatbooks. The info about playtest barbs sounds intriguing

Well, you can't do it with Barbarian or Monk. You can still do it with a 1 level dip into Sorcerer (dragon) That gives you a base AC of 13+Dex as well as some spells. Or you could do something funkier like Warlock and take Mage armour as one of your spells. Although if I were to do that, I'd probably stick with it until 3rd level for the Blade Pact.

Alternatively, just be a fighter and stick it out to 3rd level. Go Eldritch Knight and again, cast Mage armour. Now you can fight naked, you spent no levels dipping elsewhere, and you can still conjure your weapons out of nowhere.

 

[CapnZapp]

Thanks, Andor, but I'm kind of sensitive on that issue.

I strongly dislike the notion that any "cool" style needs magic to work.

By this, I especially mean Mage Armor. I want the unarmored defense feature to work completely without magic.

Your Dragon Sorc suggestion is better (since you don't need to use the spells you gain just to support your core fuctionality), thanks, I'll check it out. I guess you mean starting out as Fighter and then taking one level of sorc?

Even though level one is a quickly-forgotten bad memory I still don't see starting out as Sorc (for a character such as mine) with the loss of 4 hp and only being able to duel wield daggers at that level. Partly because 1st level for me defines how you went about your life before you started adventuring; I want my L1 character to resemble my L2 (or L20!) character as much as possible.

 

[jadrax]

I can't go all in on barbarian, since its main feature key off strength and strength alone. (And since I want to duel-wield I need a level of a class granting Two Weapon Fighting style anyway, so going Barb20 was not an option regardless)

Again, all the Two Weapon Fighting style does is allow you to apply your Ability Bonus to the damage of your off-hand attack. It is by no means needed to duel-wield. Rage damage is better. The Dual Wielder Feat is what you probably want, as that allows you to use non-light weapons.

 

[Unadvisedgoose]

Have you considered the fact that barbs are one of the classes that really don't need a higher AC? I don't mean this in a rude way, just maybe that there are a couple things to really look at when it comes up survivability for this class, and AC is kinda the lowest on the totem pole. The higher HP will be a bigger help than I think most people realize. This is only compounded by the fact that increasing your Con also increases AC, as well as HP per lvl. And then there are the rages, which can potentially give you resistance to all damage but psychic, magic weapons be damned. And in any fight where you'll likely be damaged enough to notice, you'll want to be raging anyway. Halving all damage that comes your way is pretty awesome.

As as far as two-weapon fighting, you're still getting rage damage, which no one else gets. And being able to use two martial weapons, as well as getting another +1 boost to AC, with the feat of course, can still make for a very deadly and comparable character. Just my two cents, I could still be totally missing what you're aiming for with this one.

 

[Tormyr]

There are a few configurations of human barbarian that could have an AC of 20 after the fourth ability score increase. Add bracers of defense and a ring of protection and that is AC24.

 

[CapnZapp]

Again, all the Two Weapon Fighting style does is allow you to apply your Ability Bonus to the damage of your off-hand attack.

You're saying that like it's nothing, but at low- to mid-levels (when TWF is great) I consider it essential.

After all, it's all too easy to drop the two blades and instead pick up a greataxe. GWF is the direct competitor here, and unless TWF is at least close I consider it "not usable out of PHB" for my purposes.

It is by no means needed to duel-wield.

Your point is?

Getting +Mod damage on 50% to 33% of your attacks essentially for free by simply taking one level of Fighter (&Co) is something I can't see any character serious about TWF will pass on...

Rage damage is better.

Dumping Strength is a core assumption of this entire exercise.

The Dual Wielder Feat is what you probably want, as that allows you to use non-light weapons.

To me it is obvious I need both the feat and the fighting style. What is making you suggest otherwise?

 

[Andor]

Thanks, Andor, but I'm kind of sensitive on that issue.

I strongly dislike the notion that any "cool" style needs magic to work.

By this, I especially mean Mage Armor. I want the unarmored defense feature to work completely without magic.

Your Dragon Sorc suggestion is better (since you don't need to use the spells you gain just to support your core fuctionality), thanks, I'll check it out. I guess you mean starting out as Fighter and then taking one level of sorc?

Even though level one is a quickly-forgotten bad memory I still don't see starting out as Sorc (for a character such as mine) with the loss of 4 hp and only being able to duel wield daggers at that level. Partly because 1st level for me defines how you went about your life before you started adventuring; I want my L1 character to resemble my L2 (or L20!) character as much as possible.

Well, the unarmoured defense feature does work without magic, it's just mechanically sub-optimal for your concept. I get where you are coming from, although from my perspective a mage armour spell is just a technique, or technology that your character picked up to help him fight, no different from his rapier.

You can order it anyway you please, starting in Fighter means you gain heavy armour proficiency and a str save. Starting in sorcerer means no heavy armour without dropping a feat on it, and a chr save.

From a story perspective starting in fighter makes more sense to me, since that's the career arc you're pursuing. After your initial brush with death and magic at first level the latent magic in your blood surges forth and you gain a level of sorcerer. The shock of adapting to this new found ability does delay your progression as a warrior a bit, however you've picked up a trick or two. You then continue to level as a fighter. Makes sense to me.

 

[CapnZapp]

Just my two cents, I could still be totally missing what you're aiming for with this one.

I'm not merely trying to create a deadly character.

I am asking about "unarmored defense" and how it suggests dumping strength.

So far, what I am taking away from the thread is that the feature cannot be truly leveraged: you need strength both to level up in Barb, and to multiclass out of Barb.

To give you an easy mental image of my desired end result:

Image a standard barbarian.

Now replace a few bits and bobs, and you're there:
- replace "armor" with "no armor"
- replace "big ass axe" with "twin blades"
- replace "rippling strength" with "unearthly charisma"

Without any significant loss in anything important to a primary melee combatant, such as DPR or AC.

My justifications for each of these three changes:
- dropping armor is mostly an aesthetic choice; I'm not looking to cheat the system or anything, I just don't want to be ripped off. Starting out in the same AC 16-ish range as the armored guy is fine.
- using twin blades should ideally get roughly the same results, and I believe somebody crunched the numbers, and it's only at very high levels that GWF race ahead (the numbers was something like 55 vs 48 or only 15% which is okay)
- the whole idea is based on the observation you don't need Strength to dual wield rapiers, and so I thought it cool to be able to shore up Charisma.

Oh well, we'll see what the splats will bring...

 

[the Jester]

There are a few configurations of human barbarian that could have an AC of 20 after the fourth ability score increase. Add bracers of defense and a ring of protection and that is AC24.

Don't bracers of defense give you an AC of 13 + Dex bonus?

If so, they won't allow for unarmored defense to work as well; you would have to choose (f'rexample) AC 13 + Dex from bracers or AC 10 + Dex + Con (from barbarian unarmored defense).