D&D 5E Barbarian 'Unarmored Defense'

[CapnZapp]

Okay, thanks all.

My aim is to try to create a melee character using
a) twin blades
b) no armor
c) preferably dependent on only STR or DEX, not both, so I can put my second best in CON - and my third best attribute in CHA (for role-playing purposes; I don't plan on actually using CHA for any attacks)
...all this without sucking too much (in which case I will simply have to await splat books that provide better support).

It is quite apparent that out of the two "unarmored defense" features available, the Barbarian's is better. Taking a level of barbarian for this purpose gives up quite a lot (all the armor profs, mainly, but also the bonus rage damage and the fact that my STR will suck, so being proficient in Strength saves loses much of its purpose).

The fact that rage and duel wield aren't compatible means I probably need to level up as a Fighter. I need a class such as Fighter anyway for the Two Weapon Fighting fighting style. At high levels TWF might lose too much compared with greatweapon fighting (probably around the time I get my third attack), but I can worry about that later.

In order to be able to dump STR I probably need to start out as Barbarian, since I can get into Fighter using DEX. The biggest loss here is probably the incessant focus on strength; getting proficiency on strength saves for the second time is not a minmaxed move, but I guess that is as good as it gets as far as the PHB goes...

NOTE: I am not primarily asking for charbuild tips; I am asking about how different rules mechanisms interact, where those mechanisms just happens to be the ones relevant given A+B+C above

 

[TwoSix]

In order to be able to dump STR I probably need to start out as Barbarian, since I can get into Fighter using DEX. The biggest loss here is probably the incessant focus on strength; getting proficiency on strength saves for the second time is not a minmaxed move, but I guess that is as good as it gets as far as the PHB goes...

NOTE: I am not primarily asking for charbuild tips; I am asking about how different rules mechanisms interact, where those mechanisms just happens to be the ones relevant given A+B+C above

Maybe a dip in dragon sorcerer or warlock? Both give you an AC of 13+Dex, and also benefit from your pumped up Cha.

Also, multiclassing doesn't give you proficiency in any new saves, BTW. The most saves you can possibly be proficient in is 3. (2 initial, 1 through Resilient feat).

 

[Rilak]

In order to be able to dump STR I probably need to start out as Barbarian, since I can get into Fighter using DEX.

Actually, it does not matter. You need to fulfil the prerequisites of all your classes when you multi-class. In order to class out of Barbarian, you need STR.

 

[Mouseferatu]

getting proficiency on strength saves for the second time is not a minmaxed move, but I guess that is as good as it gets as far as the PHB goes...

This isn't entirely correct, since you don't get save proficiencies for classes you multiclass into, I'm afraid. Only your starting class grants saves.

 

[Roger]

I'm having difficulty seeing the value of this class feature.

Obviously, it is of some assistance if you're caught nekkid

Fighting naked is pretty much its own reward.

 

[jadrax]

The fact that rage and duel wield aren't compatible means I probably need to level up as a Fighter.

Hang on, why are rage and duel wield not compatible? The fact you get the Rage damage on the off-hand attack (as long as you use Str to attack) makes it better with duel wielding than any other fighting style. The Two-Weapon Fighting Style from Fighter/Ranger would add a bit more damage to this, but its probably not needed. If you are using Feats I would seriously consider Dual Wielder though, so you can use bigger weapons (which helps Brutal Critical a lot).

It is not compatible with Frenzy, but that is a different (sub class) ability.

 

[Rilak]

If you are using Feats I would seriously consider Dual Wielder though, so you can use bigger weapons (which helps Brutal Critical a lot).

I would suggest Polearm Master instead. It doubles as both the two-weapon fighting style and dual wielder. The weapons you get to use are bigger, too.

Polearm master (2 attacks+bonus):
2*(d10+STR+Rage) + d4+STR+Rage

Dual wield+TWF (2 attacks+bonus):
2*(d8+STR+Rage) + d8+STR+Rage

Same damage total given the bonus action, but Polearm Master gives better reactions and does not require multi-classing. It does cost 1 AC, but that is okay.
The damage will be bigger than TWF on the initial round when you use your bonus action to activate Rage (and even bigger criticals than dual wielder).

Edit: Plus 10 ft. range and the ability to multi-class and re-roll 1's and 2's on damage dice
Re-rolling 1's and 2's is worth:
d4: +0.5 dmg
d6: +0.66 dmg
d8: +0.75 dmg
d10: +0.8 dmg
d12: +0.83 dmg
(And you get to re-roll bonus dice like weapon effects +1d6 fire dmg too; if you go for multi-class)

 

[BASHMAN]

I love Unarmored Defense.

I made a barbarian in the very early playtest who I "re-skinned" as a ninja. Her resistance to damage was not because of true "rage" but of a River-Tam-esque battle trance mode, where she blocks attacks without even looking, etc.

In all the playtests, a Dex-based barbarian was a viable option (except the secret playtest that we commoners weren't allowed to take part in). There was even an archetype that focused on it (Hawk Totem, which was much better than Eagle Totem is now, generally speaking) that allowed you to get Advantage on Dex-based attacks while raging using Reckless attack (and if you were raging, Reckless attack didn't give enemies Advantage against you then either).

I ended up with a character with a 19 Dex and 17 Con after all the Ability score boosts from leveling. AC 17. She also had Mobility feat which she used to ninja-flip her way around the battlefield.

When the PHB barbarian was announced, I went through the stages of grief for the loss of the Dexbarian build. Never again would she attack with Advantage from her trance/rage, for her Strength was a mere 14 and her dex was much higher. On the bright side, she would not have to worry about giving enemies Advantage from attacks due to the change to that feature as well. The last stage, was Acceptance, and instead of doing some super-cheese rebuild multi-classing into Fighter and Rogue as well, I kept her straight Barbarian when the GM allowed re-builds.

She switched from Hawk totem to Eagle, and while Hawk was generally better for her offense (and jumping ability was amazing) it also allowed her to drop one of her feats which basically did the same thing (Mobility gives similar benefits to Eagle Totem at a certain level). She bumped Dex up to 20 and Con up to 18. Now she has an AC of 19. The Eagle totem ability lets enemies take AoO on her when she ninja-flips past them; but it is with Disadvantage. In a way, this is a bit better because she can run in, and rob a bunch of enemies of their AoO so that allies don't have to worry about it. She also can Dash as a bonus action, so she moves even FASTER than she could before! On the rare occasions they hit, she takes half damage. She is a mobile tank who helps other PCs be more mobile. She is also a bit of a trouble-shooter herself; moving to different areas of the battle where she is needed rather than standing in one spot and constantly wailing on one target.

She still gets to attack with Advantage pretty often; but now it is because of stealth (she took Wolf Totem at a higher level, letting her Stealth at full speed). Her mobile nature also allows her to move to take advantage of certain situations, like when an enemy is prone, she moves up to it and hits with Advantage. This means she still gets in a decent number of crits.

So she is a more defense-focused Barbarian. She doesn't use the offensive features of her class (unless there is a fist-fight). Her +1 Katana (GM granfathered in Katanas as Finesse Weapons; it was my one special consideration throughout for character design) does d10+6 damage 2-handed. If she chose to use STR to hit, she'd do d10+5 dmg (albeit with Advantage) but she'd have to give targets Advantage against her... and that just doesn't seem to be her style. She prefers not being hit, and when she is, she takes half damage. That is good enough of a feature for her.

 

[Juriel]

I would suggest Polearm Master instead. It doubles as both the two-weapon fighting style and dual wielder. The weapons you get to use are bigger, too.

Very true. But... if you had other plans for the stat/feat picks before the teen levels, then dual-wield even without the fighting style is still okay enough - it is still an extra attack without expenditure, as instead of a big weapon's 2d6 + Str + Rage, you're doing d6 + Str + Rage + d6 + Rage.

 

[CapnZapp]

Again thanks,

It appears you can't build my character without too-costly compromises using only PHB material.

Remember, my point was to leverage the fact that rapiers allow d8 Dex weapons, and to be able to dump Strength.

Thanks to your help I now know there is no unarmored defense feature available for characters wishing to dump strength (and wisdom):

I can't go all in on barbarian, since its main feature key off strength and strength alone. (And since I want to duel-wield I need a level of a class granting Two Weapon Fighting style anyway, so going Barb20 was not an option regardless)

And I can't multiclass a level of Barbarian, since the rules require Str 13 to do that. Monk is even worse.

Building a DEX/CON/CHA character that wears no armor and still gets top notch AC (high enough to be a frontline primary melee character) is thus impossible. (Where "impossible" means "without paying a steep cost")

Yet. Let's hope for splatbooks. The info about playtest barbs sounds intriguing