Level Up (A5E) [Bard] Cunning word

[Huntedown]

I would like a bit of clarification on the following ability

How would you rule this on a nat 20. I would be in the assumption that a nat 20 is a nat 20, no matter any post-modifier.
On the other hand it does provide a great escape on crit.

 

[Steampunkette]

It specifies "From the Roll" not "From the Total" or "From the Result"

So I'd say it kills Crits, myself.

 

[Distracted DM]

A lot of the A5E wording isn't particularly choosy- as a GM I wouldn't let it negate a nat20 crit. There are in-between options, like "if you crit but the lowered total doesnt hit, then it doesn't hit," but IMO there are already plenty of options in A5E to downgrade crits.

 

[Sepulchre]

Adding modifiers to a roll doesn’t change the number on the die and neither does subtracting them. A natural 20 is still a natural 20, and therefore a critical hit on an attack roll.

 

[noodohs]

On the one hand, it does say "from the roll," which I'm inclined to say should subtract it from the number rolled. But I'm not sure the specific language for that is actually clarified anywhere and this also says you can use it after the roll, so if you know it can't change a 20, then you'd know not to bother. I'd be fine with either way as long as the rolls aren't private.

 

[Tablite]

Pg 444 of the Adventurers Guide defines an "attack roll" as the d20 roll plus all relevant modifiers (see attached), not just the physical roll. Ability check is likewise defined on PG 401(d20 + modifiers).

To me, that says Cunning Words modifies what most would call the total, not the raw roll, so it wouldn't negate the effects of a natural 20. Even sacrifice shield and taking a level of fatigue don't change a nat 20 attack roll from always succeeding, just the crit damage (447).

 

[W'rkncacnter]

yeah i'd say at most you could turn a crit into a hit by reducing the total to lower then the target's AC. which is still really good, but it's not deleting the hit altogether.

 

[Selganor]

For those ruling that cunning words effectively changes the number on the die... If cunning words can turn a nat-20 to anything else than a critical hit, would bardic inspiration be able to turn a nat-1 on a to hit roll from an auto-fail to a hit (if the sum hits)?

 

[Steampunkette]

For those ruling that cunning words effectively changes the number on the die... If cunning words can turn a nat-20 to anything else than a critical hit, would bardic inspiration be able to turn a nat-1 on a to hit roll from an auto-fail to a hit (if the sum hits)?

For me? ABSOLUTELY.

I'm a big fan of letting players get the most bang for their buck from various features. Because even if they manage to avoid a crit they're still gonna get hit. And if a d4 roll can turn a nat 1 into a regular hit then the target's AC is so low that it should be almost impossible to fail, so it supports the narrative of the player being a capable warrior/adventurer/whatever to not fail.

Whether it's sacrificing a shield or expending a limited resource, it's all the same to me, so long as it makes for a good story.

 

[Selganor]

The only problem could be the "but before the Narrator declares whether [...] succeeds or fails" as players should know the effects of a Nat 1/20 even before "the Narrator declares" them