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5E Bards have an identity problem!


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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
Maybe the bard is just a people-oriented wizard. Regular wizards focus on the world (magic, elements, etc). Clerics focus on the divine, Warlocks on the demonic, Druids on nature.

Bards focus on people and society. Musicians, poets, orators, prophets, judges, politicians, leaders.

What is the power source for each?

Druids = nature (or nature gods or nature spirits)
Clerics = divinities or the powers behind them
Warlocks = demonic
Wizards = the science of magic (?)
Bards = ?
 

MarkB

Legend
Can we at least agree bards shouldn’t be a full caster like a cleric or wizard?
Maybe we could have before, but now we have Artificers filling that role. We don't need another part-time caster class.

Personally I like that they're not the jack-of-all-trades-master-of-none they were before. They could do with being more thematic, but weakening their spellcasting isn't necessarily the key here.
 

Mort

Hero
Supporter
Can we at least agree bards shouldn’t be a full caster like a cleric or wizard?

No.

Removing full caster status won't necessarily help with class identity but will certainly introduce new balance issues.

I guess I just don't see they problem so don't see the need for any solutions (that will likely introduce problems).
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
No.

Removing full caster status won't necessarily help with class identity but will certainly introduce new balance issues.

I guess I just don't see they problem so don't see the need for any solutions (that will likely introduce problems).

justify giving the bard as much magic as the wizard and cleric. Pretty hard to see.
 

Tonguez

Legend
Druids = nature (or nature gods or nature spirits)
Clerics = divinities or the powers behind them
Warlocks = demonic
Wizards = the science of magic (?)
Bards = ?
Bards = ‘The Muse’

imc Fae are made of ‘Phantasm’, the gestalt stuff of Mortal Dreams, and thus Fae are dependent of mortals for their form and existence. The legend of the Fairy Muse and the Fairy Fiddler arise because Fairy need mortals to be creative and whimsical and thus generate Phantasm.

Perhaps Bards have also learnt from their Muse how to not only generate phantasm but also to shape it in magic effects
 




Iry

Hero
Bards are probably the best class in the game. They can be almost anything, and accommodate almost any concept. If that gives them an identity problem, it's a damn good problem to have.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Justify giving the cleric and druid as much magic as the wizard. There aren't much in the way of fantasy portrayals of them as full casters outside RPGs.

druid is just a nature wizard. He’s easy to justify.

cleric is powered by the gods. There’s no reason he can’t match the wizard in magic.

there both are justified.
 

Mort

Hero
Supporter
There is no burden of anything. But clearly you don’t want to justify. Wonder if it’s cause you can’t?

Bit aggressive no?

I've found the bard both playes well and differently enough from other casters; with nice thematic flavor. As such, I don't believe changing anything is either necessary or desired. Why change something that's working?
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Bards are probably the best class in the game. They can be almost anything, and accommodate almost any concept. If that gives them an identity problem, it's a damn good problem to have.

So let’s set this straight. The complaint isn’t that bards are mechanically bad. As you note they are mechanically great - arguably the best class in 5e in terms of mechanics.
 

FrogReaver

As long as i get to be the frog
Bit aggressive no?

I've found the bard both playes well and differently enough from other casters; with nice thematic flavor. As such, I don't believe changing anything is either necessary or desired. Why change something that's working?

If you are going to accuse me of being aggressive then I’m not interested in going further with you on this.
 

Iry

Hero
So let’s set this straight. The complaint isn’t that bards are mechanically bad. As you note they are mechanically great - arguably the best class in 5e in terms of mechanics.
Yes, Bards are amazing. I do agree they have a problem with identity, but that's a problem born from an abundance of options.
 

Mort

Hero
Supporter
There is no burden of anything. But clearly you don’t want to justify. Wonder if it’s cause you can’t?


If you don't want to be accused of being aggressive don't say stuff like this. And certainly don't get offended when you get called out, even as mildly as I did.

Also, notice, I answered your question. You didn't answer mine.
 


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