D&D 5E Bards have an identity problem!

[TaranTheWanderer]

All full casters are mostly the same to me. Which Stat do you want to cast with? If there was a bigger difference in spell selection between classes, they'd all feel a bit more unique.

 

[Tonguez]

Merlin Sylvestris was a Bard who Geoffrey of Monmouth later coopted into the legends of King Arthur.

So based on Merlin Im happy with the Bard regaining its historic role as Prophet-Loremaster and mysterious wizard

 

[Asisreo]

I strongly disagree that bards are not a great support character or that they need any help in that department.

Every bard subclass is great at support, even the college of swords bard, IME the least "support" of the bunch (because so much of their resources go into self buffing) is great at support when they choose to be.

They are as good at support as any other class with the same spell, assuming no extra features from those other classes. There's obviously the sorcerer but there's also the wizard who can protect an ally by being abjuration or giving certain effects through a transmuter's stone. A bard has no features to make any of their support spells stand out or be better.

In fact, they only get 2 features that can even be considered support, bardic inspiration and song of rest. Everything else is selfish for the bard.

So, they can fulfill support, but they're no greater (and even less so) than other characters in this regard.

It makes them feel like a psuedo-wizard instead with their magical secrets trying to have an answer for everything they wouldn't normally have.

 

[Mort]

it’s not that they aren’t great. It’s that what they are great at doesn’t align to their identity.

Well, the boards subclasses likely lead to different identities - they're so diverse. So the question of whether they're is alignment may not be the same for each subclass.

The bard in my group is a blade (college of swords) bard. His class identity seems to be that of an warrior poet. He uses his chants to augment his fighting prowess and to assist his allies in overcoming the enemy.

Could another class work here? Maybe, but the bard certainly makes it an easy fit.

 

[MarkB]

So, what exactly does "bard-like" mean? What archetype are we trying to emulate here?

 

[FrogReaver]

What was the game-world identity of Bard's before? If a Magus is a Wizard/Fighter in PF, is a bard a Wizard/Thief with musical flavor and subbing out back-stab for knowledge skills?

What literature are they patterned after? Was it the Finnish section of de Camp and Pratt? What distinguishes them from a Wizard that uses words (like Earthsea or Name of the Wind) except for singing instead of saying?

Should they be more like Warlocks but with songs? Is that too limiting?

I don’t have the answer. Musical invocations would be really cool. Tone back the spell casting into half caster level maybe.

 

[FrogReaver]

All full casters are mostly the same to me. Which Stat do you want to cast with? If there was a bigger difference in spell selection between classes, they'd all feel a bit more unique.

yea a very unique spell list might have worked.

 

[FrogReaver]

All full casters are mostly the same to me. Which Stat do you want to cast with? If there was a bigger difference in spell selection between classes, they'd all feel a bit more unique.

yea a very unique spell list might have worked.

 

[FrogReaver]

So, what exactly does "bard-like" mean? What archetype are we trying to emulate here?

Not sure. But I know it’s not being too wizard-like

 

[Mort]

They are as good at support as any other class with the same spell, assuming no extra features from those other classes. There's obviously the sorcerer but there's also the wizard who can protect an ally by being abjuration or giving certain effects through a transmuter's stone. A bard has no features to make any of their support spells stand out or be better.

But they mix spells other classes generally don't. You're not going to see a wizard slinging healing word, for example.

And sure it's a cantrip, but viscous mockery can't be ignored for how much it can aid the group. That's bard exclusive.

In fact, they only get 2 features that can even be considered support, bardic inspiration and song of rest. Everything else is selfish for the bard.

But other than that, how was the play Mrs. Lincoln?

Bardic inspiration is huge, especially for lore bards.

So, they can fulfill support, but they're no greater (and even less so) than other characters in this regard.

Every time I've seen a bard in a group they lift the group up with their support. I've listed a few ways, in due they're not exclusive.

It makes them feel like a psuedo-wizard instead with their magical secrets trying to have an answer for everything they wouldn't normally have.

I guess our experiences differ, in the groups I've seen, the bars maintains a very separate identity from the Wizard.