Bards just don't convince me!

[Scratched_back]

One of the players in my group recently had his character killed and doesn't want him ressurected or raised in any way. He says he's been thinking about playing a bard for a while and thinks he can make it worthwhile. Instantly there were grumblings amongst the group. Nobody I game with can see their merit, including me.

Now, I'm not a prejudiced person at all but when I risk life and limb everyday on behalf of my party, ideally I'd like to know that the whole party are reliable and able to help me should I need it... not compose a little ditty for my funeral.

The upshot is, I've been playing D&D now for 7 years, and I haven't seen one Bard that wasn't laughable. PLEASE can someone show me a build that will change my mind, or tell me what I'm missing to not see ANY potential in Bards, or somehow say SOMETHING good about them!

People have said to me: "Well if you already have your bases covered as a party, Bard's are awesome!" but I still think any party would be better off with a second Mage or a second Cleric over a Bard!

I know I may be incorrect, but I need to why.

How many of you have a Bard in your party anyway? :\

 

[MoonZar]

One of the players in my group recently had his character killed and doesn't want him ressurected or raised in any way. He says he's been thinking about playing a bard for a while and thinks he can make it worthwhile. Instantly there were grumblings amongst the group. Nobody I game with can see their merit, including me.

Now, I'm not a prejudiced person at all but when I risk life and limb everyday on behalf of my party, ideally I'd like to know that the whole party are reliable and able to help me should I need it... not compose a little ditty for my funeral.

The upshot is, I've been playing D&D now for 7 years, and I haven't seen one Bard that wasn't laughable. PLEASE can someone show me a build that will change my mind, or tell me what I'm missing to not see ANY potential in Bards, or somehow say SOMETHING good about them!

People have said to me: "Well if you already have your bases covered as a party, Bard's are awesome!" but I still think any party would be better off with a second Mage or a second Cleric over a Bard!

I know I may be incorrect, but I need to why.

How many of you have a Bard in your party anyway? :\

Bard is the jack of all trade of the group, he could do almost anything, arcane, healing, rogue, and fighting if you play a balanced campaign. I play in two campaign and we have a bard in each of them...

Also look at the two bad class in the Complete Arcane, seeker of the song and Sublime Chord, i think they worth it !

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

The bard in my party is responsible for almost as much damage over the course of an adventure as our front-line fighters.

Why?

Because that +1 to damage, +1 to hit for all attacks (including weapon-like spells) really, really adds up - especially when you start considering feats or other abilities that push it even higher.

 

[MoonZar]

The bard in my party is responsible for almost as much damage over the course of an adventure as our front-line fighters.

Why?

Because that +1 to damage, +1 to hit for all attacks (including weapon-like spells) really, really adds up - especially when you start considering feats or other abilities that push it even higher.

Patryn is right, a bard of level 1 can help the group to do +1 dmg for all the combat. The inspire courage last for 5 round after you stop, if you take the right feat this last for 10 round. After you stop you can join the combat as well and all your friend get this nice bonus. This not bad

Don't forget that bard is roleplay opportunity in gold, who wouldn't want a bard in his group to write tales about their heroic deeds and became famous ?

 

[Scratched_back]

Patryn is right, a bard of level 1 can help the group to do +1 dmg for all the combat. The inspire courage last for 5 round after you stop, if you take the right feat this last for 10 round. After you stop you can join the combat as well and all your friend get this nice bonus. This not bad

Don't forget that bard is roleplay opportunity in gold, who wouldn't want a bard in his group to write tales about their heroic deeds and became famous ?

Yeah you're right, a +1 bonus that stacks is lovely, but my point is... does a +1 party bonus and a below average combat participant equal filling the same party slot that could've been another mage, or another fighter etc?

 

[Storyteller01]

Will you accept OGL sources/houseruling?

FFG has feats that allow for different mystic ability chains (dance, instumental, song, and chanting). EAch have their own special abilities (dance has movement and combat rerlated abilities, chanting can be used to intimidate, etc).

Each ability also comes with ways of using their abilities to help others. Sacing a spell and chanting can help a wizard extend spell durations, song can improve clerical healing, dance can allow flanking bonuses even when the bard is 15' away, etc.


We houseruled that a bard starts with one such feat, and gains a new mystic performance ability every fifth level.


Juggling dance is VERY helpful. As a full round action, you toss x amount of thrown weapons as at your full attack bonus. Ranged Whirlwind anyone?


This same source also has a feat that allows Bards of 3rd level to sacrifice spells to use a weapon they aren't usually proficient with for 1 round per spell level.

 

[Saeviomagy]

One of the players in my group recently had his character killed and doesn't want him ressurected or raised in any way. He says he's been thinking about playing a bard for a while and thinks he can make it worthwhile. Instantly there were grumblings amongst the group. Nobody I game with can see their merit, including me.

If this is really true, and none of you can see their merit at all, then you're being willfully blind.

+1 to hit, +1 to damage is great. Being able to shut down a fight before it starts (via fascinate) is great too. And some of those spells are pretty potent, as long as you make good selections. Especially if you pick up bardic metamagic.

And just wait till you pick up some of the bardic music feats. Ironskin chant, sustaining song...

And, of course, a bard isn't that bad in a fight either if you choose to build him that way. There's quite a few of his spells don't require somatics, so you can potentially armour up, and no matter what people think, or the perceptions involved, the difference between a cleric and a bard is only 1hp/level. And take a look at some of those charisma-based combat feats that're coming out.

 

[Len]

Never mind the arithmetic. Any game is more fun with an annoying elf bard.

 

[Scratched_back]

...Especially if you pick up bardic metamagic.

And just wait till you pick up some of the bardic music feats. Ironskin chant, sustaining song...

And, of course, a bard isn't that bad in a fight either if you choose to build him that way. There's quite a few of his spells don't require somatics, so you can potentially armour up, and no matter what people think, or the perceptions involved, the difference between a cleric and a bard is only 1hp/level. And take a look at some of those charisma-based combat feats that're coming out.

Now, this is the kind of stuff I mean. I have no idea what any of that is. Ironskin chant, sustaining song, it means nothing to me because nothing about the bard grabbed me strongly enough to read into it fully. What books are they from? We rarely play anything but PHB & Completes.

...but I still find it hard to believe that the difference between a bard and a cleric boils down to hps...

 

[MoonZar]

Yeah you're right, a +1 bonus that stacks is lovely, but my point is... does a +1 party bonus and a below average combat participant equal filling the same party slot that could've been another mage, or another fighter etc?

If you play a balanced party i would say yes if you have more then two players at the table. If you're 5 with the bard, then the group could do 4 more damage each round right at level 1 ?

At level 6 the group warrior would have more attack each round so this bonus of damage each round can double.

At level 12 the group fighter have 3 attack each round and the bard give a bonus of +2 now, this make a lot of more damage each round that the bard produce by himself. For exemple if you have two warrior in the group of level 12, and they all hit with their 6 attack (3 attack each) this make +12 dmg for only one round, thanks to the bard help !!!

And don't forget that the bard can still acting after activate his ability to do more damage with spell and melee.

Bard are a supporting character, but if you have many players this worth it, if you have lower character the bard is still usefull because he act as mage, priest and rogue in the same times.