Bards - let's hear some strategies and suggestions, please.

[taliesin15]

someone writes:
You cann make him good at spellcasting, but he'll never be as good as a sorcerer or Wizards. ..Bards have nothing about them that is all powerful.
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I must say I found this thread a little dissapointing--isn't it obvious that unless you have a Paladin in the party, the Bard is the obvious choice for the leader, as s/he is likely to have the highest charisma, and being more balanced, is better than a Sorceror in that role? Who else is better to speak for the party in urban areas that someone who might be a kind of regional rock star already?

Most glaring to me (unless I missed it) are some of the unique spells to Bards: in particular I draw your attention to Sculpt Sound and Modify Memory. The Bard can make the opposing spellcasters snort like a pig when they attempt their verbal component!

Of course it in part depends on the milieu--since MC is mainly Viking, Celtic and Finnish secondarily, Bards play a prominent role in these cultures. They are not only the historians of the tribe, but the public face of the most important religious institution of these lands: the Order of the Wise (i.e. the Druids).

 

[sfedi]

Bards are definetly the best class at social interaction.

With their low cost on languages, all social skills class skills and even spells that complement this, I find them second to none at social interaction, information gathering, negotiation, etc.

The rogue comes close, if specialized.

 

[Christian]

someone writes:
I must say I found this thread a little dissapointing--isn't it obvious that unless you have a Paladin in the party, the Bard is the obvious choice for the leader, as s/he is likely to have the highest charisma, and being more balanced, is better than a Sorceror in that role? Who else is better to speak for the party in urban areas that someone who might be a kind of regional rock star already?

I doubt the DM was wanting his NPC bard to be the party leader ...

 

[DarkEarth_98]

When you think about it, a bard, a musician, is a person who particularly likes to be with other people, that's how he gets his attention and powers... You will probably never see a bard run towards a whole lot of enemies, because he probably already hates to fight. His nature is to be with people and help them, make music to make them feel better and all, he's an artist who likes peace and freedom... At least that's what I think.

I'd say, try and build up a bard when you wanna help your party members with different tasks... They'll probably always need you for many things, since the character is pretty good in almost any situation. But in fights, they'll be just strong enough to defend themselves and to survive, not to decimate a whole lot of baddies.

 

[taliesin15]

Here's a suggestion for a Bard paradigm that apparently people aren't aware of (the notion of being able to buy Perform skills in dancing--the waltz? good god! even the Pavane is a stretch but at least people were using it in the 16th century--or comedy...):

FAFHRD

read the first chapter of the Fafhrd & Grey Mouser series--the paradigm of a Nordic style Skald is much more studly

and THEN there's The Kalevala...isn't Vainamoinen both Great Warrior and Bard?

...not to mention countless examples of Bard/Mages...especially if your Wizard is of the Divination School, that's just a perfect blend for finding and making magic items

 

[Victim]

Remember that you don't have to be a wuss bard. Drop like a 14 or so into CHA, but make your best stats STR and CON. Use buffing spells (haste, displacement, magic weapon, bull's STR, mirror image) and songs to improve your combat ability. A level or two of barbarian or fighter gets you better HP and weapon proficiencies. Essentially, think of a combat cleric, but with bardic buffs instead. While the lack of HP and armor (use the Battlecaster feat from C Arc) will hurt a bit, many of your buffs will hit the group as well. Also, you have actual skill points.

 

[taliesin15]

victim wrote:
Remember that you don't have to be a wuss bard. Drop like a 14 or so into CHA, but make your best stats STR and CON.

splendid--one character combo I think that works very well is Ranger/Bard

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

Bards can do lots of things. I have seen moderately effective melee bards, but where they truly excel is magical manipulation, investigation, politics, and combat support.

From last to first:

-The most effective support character I ever played with was a 14th level bard. He didn't have a ton of firepower himself, but what he did do is make good use of his bardic music abilities. He had an instrument from Song and Silence that let him maintain two bardsongs at once so he first inspired courage and then maintained it while he inspired greatness in the party's two main fighters (well, a fighter proper and my fighter/mage). The temporary hit points were, of course, helpful, and the bonusses to hit amped up our damage a long ways. (+4 to hit/+2 damage on ten attacks between the two of us translated into 100 points of damage through power attack). The temporary hit dice rendered my character immune to a Blasphemy spell that otherwise would have dazed him in the crucial first round. (Actually, the first round wasn't all THAT crucial in that case since I cast Bigby's grasping hand on a cleric who had Freedom of Movement up, but had I been dazed in round 1, I would have done that in round 2 instead of killing the cleric).

-Another bard I've seen work exceptionally well is focussed on diplomacy and manipulation. If there's a sneaky ability, he has it. His sense motive is high enough that even the glibness spell doesn't necessarily fool him. If it's not fighting, he can fascinate it by telling a story and then suggest that it do his bidding. Failing that, he can modify its memory so it remembers someone else asking it to do something. He's the character who breaks every module (actually, his player describes that as the way to play high level D&D: "modules are written so that, if you open the door, you fall in the pit or make a save; you never open the door or otherwise do what the module expects you to--in that way, you avoid the deathtraps") by talking the enemy into letting the party by or tricking them into switching sides, etc. He rapidly finds out what is going on and uses it to his advantage. In combat, he uses haste and inspire courage, etc to great effect.

-A third bard who was quite effective made extensive use of enchantments (confusion, tasha's hideous laughter, etc) as well as sculpt sound (to make a party of armored fighters silent), etc. to augment the party's stealth and infiltration capabilities.

As an NPC, the first or the third model is probably most appropriate.

 

[Plane Sailing]

People often underestimate the Bards contribution towards the total amount of damage caused in melee. bardic music was always good, but it became better in 3.5e.

They are the only class with access to the fantastic spell "Good Hope"

Good Hope
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Brd 3
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Targets: One living creature/level, no two of which may be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: 1 min./level
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)
This spell instills powerful hope in the subjects. Each affected creature gains a +2 morale bonus on saving throws, attack rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls.
Good hope counters and dispels crushing despair.

When he can first get this it gives 7 people +2 to all hit and damage rolls for 7 mins (plus the saving throw boost too). There have been at least a couple of fights where this spell has been instrumental in our victory - without it blows would have missed, saving throws would have been failed, and 7 people with multiple attacks getting +2 damage on all their attacks is great and only gets better as they level up.

They get Heroism as a 2nd level spell which isn't quite as good (1 target, no damage bonus) but does last for 10mins per level.

Archer bards can be particularly effective. They are not engaged in melee so they don't have problems continuing their singing, they can have rapid shot and thus double up the damage benefit from their inspiring courage. Can work well for them.

Cheers

 

[Keepiru]

A great link I saw on another bard thread has some good information you could look at. http://www.buckbd.com/games/bards.html - Bard's Munchkin Fakebook

I'm playing a 3.5 level 14 Bard / 2 Seeker of the Song right now (My first character, somehow still alive!) and I'm pretty happy with the options he has. He depends more on staying out of combat and acting more as a scout / support than a melee type. I summon in a phantom steed so I can get around quicker and either cast spells such as silence, mirage arcana (Make a gaping pit appear does wonders for crowd control), and dispel magic against buffed enemies. A handful of good wands and scrolls are helpful. Fireball or magic missile are useful choices. Whips and rapiers that you can use Weapon Finesse on are good to have since it's common to crank your dexterity for precious AC bonuses. My favorite moment was way back at 3rd level when a bad guy was fleeing on a horse. I mounted my own, rode him down, and used a whip to make a trip attack and de-horse him.
In my last campaign session I finally got to use Fascinate and Suggestion to convince the guy I captured to spill the beans about the evil city my party was about to waltz into. Great tool if you work with your party to not mess up your attempt (ie, no killing. Our campaign joke is that it's easier to kill someone and speak with the dead than talk to the living)

A second bard I drew up was even less of a combatant than my current one. He casts invisibility on himself, uses slippers of spiderclimbing to go up a wall out of reach, then uses the "Subsonics" feat from Song and Silence (Also appears in Complete Adventurer) to play his music without anyone noticing him. From there he could also use his little shortbow to plink anyone who looks like a good target.

Take up Singing as your perform skill. You won't get any bonuses from masterwork instruments, but your hands can be free to wield weapons while you play your music. Later on you can take the Versatile Performer feat from Complete Adventurer to play instruments and sing to get the same bonus if you do both at the same time.

Lingering Song is also a great feat so that you can spend the first round or two buffing then not have to worry about starting your music again for the rest of the encounter (usually)